# Going to Germany this summer. How much Neo-Naziism will we encounter? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 19, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146 "2014-06-19T15:11:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/141 "2014-08-07T13:49:11Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Pretty amusing. Several posters in this thread have stated that I went to Germany to prove that Anti Semitism exists there. It is to laugh. First of all, who the fuck would do that?? I went for family reasons. But it was reasonable to consider the history of the place. Has anyone claimed that the actual purpose of your trip was to seek out neo-nazis and antisemites? The point is that you went to Germany expecting to find such people, and this expectation was strong enough that the sight of a single swastika painted on a wall somewhere was sufficient to confirm to you that an entire nation has failed to learn the lessons of history. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/142 "2014-08-07T14:02:22Z")
I used to live a couple of streets over from a Klan meeting house (since condemned.) And by “used to”, I mean eight years ago. In Orange County, Florida - [one of the most diverse counties in America](http://www.randalolson.com/wp-content/uploads/US_racial_diversity_map.png) (it’s the dark bit in the middle of Florida). I guess we are a nation of white supremacists who’ve learned nothing from our history, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/143 "2014-08-07T14:31:51Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > So, I witnessed Nazi iconography first-hand. I hope you’re able to find the fantastically skilled therapist you’ll need to help you work through the trauma of this experience. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/144 "2014-08-07T14:53:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It was the term in the post to which I was responding. You mean my post where I pointed out that the links **Cartooniverse** provided were predominantly examples of anti-semitism among the Muslim population in Europe? Ok, so there are general anti-semitic stereotypes in Germany and Europe. Never denied it. How is that relevant to my point that the **specific** examples given by **Cartooniverse** were predominantly not of that type? Especially when originally, he was posting nonsensical statements about not just feelings and attitudes but expectations of outright and explicit neo-Nazi iconography and hostility to himself? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/145 "2014-08-07T14:59:31Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Seriously, isn’t it just exhausting to be that hyperdramatic all the time? This is the person who legitimately wanted actor Colin Farrell to be arrested for rape because in a movie a character he played kissed a teenager. So, being hyperdramatic is his thing. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/146 "2014-08-07T15:12:42Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > So, I witnessed Nazi iconography first-hand. Get over yourself, you can see the swastika all over the world. Weirdly enough, the the place you have to look the hardest to find it is: Germany I wonder why that is. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/147 "2014-08-07T15:23:05Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > This is the person who legitimately wanted actor Colin Farrell to be arrested for rape because in a movie a character he played kissed a teenager. > > So, being hyperdramatic is his thing. Was gonna request a link, [but decided to find it myself.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=355044)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/148 "2014-08-07T15:25:17Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Get over yourself, you can see the swastika all over the world. This is quite true. I went to Latvia in May, my first day there sitting in a mall eating and on the back of all the chairs where stylized swastikas. Threw me for a loop since I wasn’t expecting it at all, especially since the Latvians got rolled over by the Nazis. I found out it’s a traditional symbol in the Latvian culture. The worst place I’ve seen any kind of neo-Nazi crap was at a motorcycle race in Maryland. One guy had a massive swastika on his back. It was so out of place that I had to take a photo of it. I’m surprised the OP found one swastika in Germany, but so what, it’s one asshole as already been said. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/149 "2014-08-07T15:40:24Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I’d love to see Germany the way my father saw it. > > Through a Norden bombsight on a B-17. It was my grandfather’s dream to shoot down a German airplane. Last summer, he got his wish. Yes, it’s kind of an old joke ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/150 "2014-08-07T15:52:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, it does. The survey was done among German citizens. I already stipulated the Turkey-origin German citizens. Fair enough. My mistake. > [@](#): > > That leaves 15 million non-Muslim German citizen anti-semites. Maybe not all ethnic Germans (although the numbers really suggest quite a few of those). But German citizens. Were statistical breakdowns provided for the various ethnic groups among German citizens, especially among 2nd-generation immigrant families, I feel comfortable in asserting that they would contribute a disproportionate amount to the anti-semitic total amongst citizens. But I cannot prove this, so I will leave it at that. > [@](#): > > It was the term in the post to which I was responding. No, it was not the relevant term. **Great Antibob** was drawing a distinction between anti-semitism and Neo-Nazism, and your post served only to conflate the two terms. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/151 "2014-08-07T15:58:48Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > This is quite true. I went to Latvia in May, my first day there sitting in a mall eating and on the back of all the chairs where stylized swastikas. Threw me for a loop since I wasn’t expecting it at all, especially since the Latvians got rolled over by the Nazis. I found out it’s a traditional symbol in the Latvian culture. > > The worst place I’ve seen any kind of neo-Nazi crap was at a motorcycle race in Maryland. One guy had a massive swastika on his back. It was so out of place that I had to take a photo of it. > > I’m surprised the OP found one swastika in Germany, but so what, it’s one asshole as already been said. I’ve seen it in every country I’ve visited - as a German it somehow stands out to me… I wonder why that would be? :smack: … you can even find that damn thing it in Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/152 "2014-08-07T16:24:37Z")
I went to a reconstruction of the Limes Germanics near my house recently (reconstructed near an actual site) and in a display case showing all the things they had recovered they had a collection of buttons/fasteners for clothing. One was in the shape of a swastika. Near the button, in English and in German, was a note stating, something to the effect of, “This symbol has been used throughout history for a variety of reasons. It is displayed here to show that the Roman’s also used it in their clothing. It’s display is in no way meant as a political symbol.” I’m paraphrasing but an out of the way museum with one tiny button on display among thousands of other artifacts and the people in charge felt they had to explain that it wasn’t a Nazi symbol in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/153 "2014-08-07T16:45:38Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > … if you ignore patterns you don’t see patterns. If you are looking for patterns, you find evidence… People see what they want to see- and I admit I’m one of those people. Hmmm… now where have I heard that [line of thinking](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition#Religion.2C_superstition.2C_and_conspiracy) before? Oh right! Now I remember: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Every Conspiracy Theorist Ever** > > _“Come on, people! Open your eyes! It’s right there in front of you!”_ > [@](#): > > Interesting that others refuse to recognize that fact. Crusading is very time-intensive. I’m guessing most of us have better things to do. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/154 "2014-08-07T18:20:02Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Hmmm… now where have I heard that [line of thinking](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition#Religion.2C_superstition.2C_and_conspiracy) before? > > Oh right! Now I remember: > > Crusading is very time-intensive. I’m guessing most of us have better things to do. I know. I love that bit by him. What pattern, exactly, did you find? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/155 "2014-08-07T18:20:19Z")
A couple of months ago I saw a swastika drawn on the wall of an IHOP bathroom. Since then I’ve been down in a funk. Knowing that the American people are neo-nazis and still hate Jews has taken the brightness out of life. Clearly we have learned nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/156 "2014-08-07T18:20:44Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > I went to a reconstruction of the Limes Germanics near my house recently (reconstructed near an actual site) and in a display case showing all the things they had recovered they had a collection of buttons/fasteners for clothing. One was in the shape of a swastika. > > Near the button, in English and in German, was a note stating, something to the effect of, “This symbol has been used throughout history for a variety of reasons. It is displayed here to show that the Roman’s also used it in their clothing. It’s display is in no way meant as a political symbol.” > > I’m paraphrasing but an out of the way museum with one tiny button on display among thousands of other artifacts and the people in charge felt they had to explain that it wasn’t a Nazi symbol in this context. I guess, the Romans 2000 years ago must have been Nazi’s as well… the Holy Roman Empire and all. … :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/157 "2014-08-07T18:23:46Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > A couple of months ago I saw a swastika drawn on the wall of an IHOP bathroom. Since then I’ve been down in a funk. Knowing that the American people are neo-nazis and still hate Jews has taken the brightness out of life. Clearly we have learned nothing. Well, German pancakes are pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/158 "2014-08-07T18:38:37Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > This is the person who legitimately wanted actor Colin Farrell to be arrested for rape because in a movie a character he played kissed a teenager. > > So, being hyperdramatic is his thing. > [@kayaker](#): > > Was gonna request a link, [but decided to find it myself.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=355044)😃 Uh, OK, yeah I can kinda see a pattern there. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/159 "2014-08-07T23:20:25Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > They call it “The War of Northern Aggression” down there. No, we call it The Civil War. The only time I’ve ever heard “The War of Northern Aggression” was as an obvious joke. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146/160 "2014-08-08T04:30:46Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Were statistical breakdowns provided for the various ethnic groups among German citizens, especially among 2nd-generation immigrant families, I feel comfortable in asserting that they would contribute a disproportionate amount to the anti-semitic total amongst citizens. But I cannot prove this, so I will leave it at that. Here is an indication: > **[Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/07/antisemitism-rise-europe-worst-since-nazis)** > > Experts say attacks go beyond Israel-Palestinian conflict as hate crimes strike fear into Jewish communities In 14,000 hate-mail letters, emails and faxes sent over 10 years to the Israeli embassy in Berlin and the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Professor Monika Schwarz-Friesel found that 60% were written by educated, middle-class Germans, including professors, lawyers, priests and university and secondary school students. Most, too, were unafraid to give their names and addresses – something she felt few Germans would have done 20 or 30 years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-to-germany-this-summer-how-much-neo-naziism-will-we-encounter/691146.md?page=9)