# Going "underground" to avoid the draft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373 "2012-06-07T12:48:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/21 "2012-06-07T18:02:12Z")
The more difficult/challenging options to dodge the draft took balls (call it courage). Most had neither. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/22 "2012-06-07T18:28:03Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > The more difficult/challenging options to dodge the draft took balls (call it courage). Most had neither. Could you get out of going to Vietnam if you castrated yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/23 "2012-06-07T18:42:09Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > It wasn’t that easy. They led me to a small room that contained a doctor sitting behind a desk. He asked me all sorts of questions about my sexuality, and specifically about my “lifestyle.” I especially remember questions about what kind of sex I enjoyed and how I went about finding men to have sex with. I seriously wonder if the guy was playing with himself under the desk. That raised another risk: Being gay was, in effect, illegal in a lot of places in those days. More specifically, a variety of particular acts often done by gays were illegal in a lot of jurisdictions then. And merely being known to be gay got one seriously ostracized by much of the community. What were you risking in those day, by telling the inquisitor/doctor all those things? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/24 "2012-06-07T18:57:10Z")
There were many ways to avoid the draft by laying low. SS numbers were usually not obtained until people went to work, and often not even then since there were many more cash jobs available. There wasn’t much cross checking so it was easy to create a false identity of use someone elses. On top of that, it was a trivial matter to travel to Canada where depending on the circumstances a draft avoider would be well accepted. In addition, not all draft avoiders went into hiding. Some openly declared their position and served jail time, or coerced into service. Others were simply not pursued. Early in the war draft requirements were based on local enrolment, and if enough people in your area were already serving, no one was going to pursue those who hadn’t registered or showed up at camp. Things got tighter later on as the lottery was instituted, but by then opposition to the war had increased and there were a lot of sympathizers to help confound the system. The main reason cited for no current drafts is the prospect of drafting young women will cause a major political problem. But also, the prospect of drafting anyone for an unpopular war in modern society presents insurmountable enforcement problems. For a popular war, the draft would be almost unneccesary as it was during the early days of WWII. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/25 "2012-06-07T19:11:45Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Don’t blame him, it was [Arlo’s](http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml) fault. didn’t think of it in those terms, may have overreacted. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/26 "2012-06-07T19:13:31Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > didn’t think of it in those terms, may have overreacted. Sorry. Just curious, how old are you? I can understand anyone born in the 70s or later not getting the reference. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/27 "2012-06-07T19:30:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just curious, how old are you? I can understand anyone born in the 70s or later not getting the reference. You’d be surprised. I went up to a psychotherapist I know one day after church. He’s about 60, and very much the flower child. I put my hand on his shoulder and said “Shrink, I wanna kill. I mean, I wanna kill. I wanna see blood, gore, guts, and veins in my teeth. Eat burnt dead bodies. I wanna kill. Kill! Kill! KILL!” And then I started jumping up and down yelling “KILL!” He was totally lost. Thankfully, several ladies emerged from the kitchen proclaiming “He’s doing Arlo!” And, yes, I am a Unitarian. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/28 "2012-06-07T19:31:11Z")
I was in high school in the early 70’s. You were required to register for the draft when you reached age 18 (I think, maybe it was 17?) and you could do that right there at school. If you were not registered you couldn’t graduate or hope for any kind of job with the government. You could avoid the draft if you just dropped out of society I suppose, although that would mean never going to school or getting a SSN or asking for anything from the govenrment. I think for most of us, the hope was we would not get drafted but if we were THEN we worry about it. The idea of dropping out of society just because we might get drafted seems a little extreme. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/29 "2012-06-07T19:45:25Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Many years ago (heck I was a captain) the Army TImes had a headline along the lines of “Gay Sergeant Allowed to Retire.” It seems Mr. X was drafted and told the Army he was Gay. The Army told him to get in line. Off he went to Vietnam and all that until after 19 years of service the Army was shocked to discover “Hey! You’re Gay!” > > He took them to court and won. The upshot here is that they kicked him out for being gay about a year before he would have been eligible for a lifetime of benefits. It was disgusting and disgraceful and he rightfully won. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/30 "2012-06-07T19:46:55Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I was in high school in the early 70’s. You were required to register for the draft when you reached age 18 (I think, maybe it was 17?) and you could do that right there at school. If you were not registered you couldn’t graduate or hope for any kind of job with the government. You could avoid the draft if you just dropped out of society I suppose, although that would mean never going to school or getting a SSN or asking for anything from the govenrment. Very little of those things applied to my life, so either our circles were vastly different or one or both of us is misremembering. I got a SSN before 18, so a draft card wasn’t required. I’m pretty sure my high school didn’t want that document, either, for any purpose. Govt jobs – don’t know. My first govt job was the Army. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/31 "2012-06-07T19:53:53Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Very little of those things applied to my life, so either our circles were vastly different or one or both of us is misremembering. > > I got a SSN before 18, so a draft card wasn’t required. I’m pretty sure my high school didn’t want that document, either, for any purpose. Govt jobs – don’t know. My first govt job was the Army. There was no federal government requirement to register in order to graduate or get a job. Although the war was essentially over when I turned 18, nobody made me register or ever asked to see my draft card (still have it). I recall you were supposed to register within 30 days of your 18th birthday, but considering the number of people who didn’t register, I don’t think they cared at all if you registered late. A friend came with me to register and he was almost a year overdue, and there were no consequences. However, the military was releasing people by then (1974) and probably couldn’t care less if anybody registered. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/32 "2012-06-07T20:00:43Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > That raised another risk: Being gay was, in effect, illegal in a lot of places in those days. More specifically, a variety of particular acts often done by gays were illegal in a lot of jurisdictions then. And merely being known to be gay got one seriously ostracized by much of the community. > > What were you risking in those day, by telling the inquisitor/doctor all those things? Yes, of course. When answering questions about my sex life, I was essentially confessing to illegal activities. Considering how other branches of the government often treated gay people, that could have resulted in a horrible situation. I wonder whether there actually were cases of guys prosecuted after their “confession.” Or more likely: “You’re a homo? Get over here and prove it!” ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/33 "2012-06-07T20:16:12Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Could you get out of going to Vietnam if you castrated yourself? Couldn’t tell you. Never tempted. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/34 "2012-06-07T20:27:50Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Could you get out of going to Vietnam if you castrated yourself? I think that would fall in the category of “mutilation,” which would probably eliminate you from the military. The military wants to do the mutilation itself. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/35 "2012-06-07T21:13:15Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I think that would fall in the category of “mutilation,” which would probably eliminate you from the military. The military wants to do the mutilation itself. If chopping off body parts would be the last resort to avoid military service, I’d rather have my right index finger cut off (makes it kind of difficult to pull the trigger of a rifle and you can’t use it to do fun stuff anyway). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/36 "2012-06-07T21:16:08Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > If chopping off body parts would be the last resort to avoid military service, I’d rather have my right index finger cut off (makes it kind of difficult to pull the trigger of a rifle and you can’t use it to do fun stuff anyway). The technique used in [A Prayer for Owen Meany](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Prayer_for_Owen_Meany) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/37 "2012-06-07T22:28:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The main reason cited for no current drafts is the prospect of drafting young women will cause a major political problem. But also, the prospect of drafting anyone for an unpopular war in modern society presents insurmountable enforcement problems. For a popular war, the draft would be almost unneccesary as it was during the early days of WWII. Another reason is that it’s not needed, at least not right now, due to being able to fill the available billets using volunteers. They still maintain the Selective Service (the pool of names of eligible males whom the draft or whatever-other-method-of-conscription would pick from), and when I graduated high school, the main thing it sounded like I would be giving up if I didn’t register would be stuff like student loans or possibly welfare benefits (I needed the former, haven’t needed the latter). From what I understand, current military leaders are generally against using the Draft largely because, as I mentioned a bit ago, they get enough volunteers even with the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (in 2007 I had to sit on a waiting list for four months before the Air Force could find room for me in Basic Training ), and also because of a general belief in the military that volunteers will be more motivated to give a crap about their jobs than conscripts who probably didn’t want to be there in the first place. EDIT: As far as avoiding the draft in the 60’s and 70’s, I dunno. I was too young to be eligible back then so I never had to figure that bit out. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/38 "2012-06-08T01:46:19Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just curious, how old are you? I can understand anyone born in the 70s or later not getting the reference. old enough to know, hell I still have the ALBUM. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373/39 "2012-06-08T16:20:56Z")
Registering was not required to graduate in my school system, but the roles were used to identify people who should. Local draft boards differed widely in how “diligent” they were in searching out people who did not register. I took a class on how to council people to avoid the draft and not registering was the first recommendation. Many of my friends did not register but they worried about it for years. Ironically, the day I “graduated” from my draft counciling class was the day Nixon ended the draft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-underground-to-avoid-the-draft/624373.md?page=1)