# Going Without Sleep **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628 "2001-01-24T22:35:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/21 "2001-01-25T15:10:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CnoteChris \* > > But being sleepy can cause all kinds of problems that are dangerous as hell. > > So, saying that sleep deprivation is no big deal and the person is simply ‘sleepy’ is misleading. Well, I reread my post and I’m positive I didn’t say it “wasn’t a big deal”. I apologize if that’s what you perceived. Also, our study was only three days, not six, so the results would certainly be different. The focus of our study was not to put the sleepy person into dangerous situations like driving or welding, or performing circumcisions, (which would be crazy to do, because you do get loopy) but just to have them in a sleep lab, awake and test them to see if internally and PHYSICALLY, their body was beginning a breakdown. And really I think what I found most interesting about the study was that the person didn’t have to make up for that lost sleep with an equal amount. Four hours and they felt fine. You can recover very quickly. But we were just students and T.A.s and things…and I don’t have anything to prove it. jarbaby ---
**Author:** ![Spritle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Spritle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spritle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/22 "2001-01-25T15:24:06Z")
semi-related… there was a thread floating around (perhaps it was the one asking the longest you’ve stayed awake?) wherein someone posted about a person who voluntarily lived in dark seclusion (in a cave?) for a few months or so. The discussion went into her(?) sleep patterns and her perceptions of time and the number of days passed. I sure can’t recall any more details. I probably shouldn’t have even started this post. Ah, well… ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/23 "2001-01-25T16:35:17Z")
Sure, I can make another long post :-): Research indicates that on the Circadian (Latin: circa = around; dies = a day) cycle for the majority peak efficiency is attained between 8 and 9 P.M. and the low point comes at 4 A.M. Victims of the very rare condition chronic colestites (total insomnia) have been known to go without definable sleep for many years. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/24 "2001-01-25T16:50:11Z")
I saw that show, too. I think saying that he was “never the same” understates the harm that he did to himself. “Seriously mentally ill” would be more accurate. I don’t think he was able to continue very long as a DJ, or do much of anything else. ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/25 "2001-01-25T17:37:18Z")
This is fascinating, some great replies. Qquite far removed from the fairly trivial piece, about a TV hands-on competition to run in Britain (as anyone who visited the link I provided would know 😉 ), that inspired the question. It does throw up more questions than it answers though: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nowalls99_ > I also remember something about a magician who tried to keep himself awake for a week straight. I forget his name, but after a couple days he started getting really cranky. He made it like 6 days before people started trying to convince him to sleep. By this time, he was hallucinating and was extremely irritable, but still alive. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Flymaster_ > …there have been studies where otherwise healthy people have gone 13 or 14 days without sleep > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Hibernicus_ > Humans have died of sleep deprivation also, at the hands of torturers. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Benno and added to by javaman_ > Also, in the 50s I think it was, a radio DJ held a radiothon to get moeny for something, and he stayed awake for 8 days straight. They did tests on him at the time and apparently he was sleeping and being awake at the same time! He was having REM whilst talking to people. Everyone interviewed said he was never the same again, and that his personality had changed signifigantly…so be careful people!.. > … I saw that show, too. > I think saying that he was “never the same” understates the harm that he did to himself. “Seriously mentally ill” would be more accurate. I don’t think he was able to continue very long as a DJ, or do much of anything else. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/26 "2001-01-25T21:06:36Z")
I remember from my college days, reading about the Stalinist purges, that the Soviets often used sleep deprivation as a means of torture–most frequently as a means to coerce you to sign false confessions of espionage and falsely accuse your friends and family. They called it “the conveyor.” Basically, they kept rotating you through different handlers whose job it was to keep you from falling asleep, often by beating the crap out of you, etc. Survivors claimed that after 17 days on the conveyor, a man would do anything the guards asked. So 17 days seems a good, practical upper limit for keeping your sanity and will. These people didn’t die, but I’m sure they wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/27 "2001-01-25T21:39:09Z")
More data from Coren’s book: adult dogs die of lack of sleep after around 13 days. Their brains show many small haemorrhages at autopsy. The DJ was Peter Tripp of WMGM in 1959. He went 200 hours without sleep, and presented a 3-hour show each day. He was on public view for all of this time. By the end, he was severely delusional. The record is held by Randy Gardner, who was 17 at the time, in 1964. He went for 264 hours without sleep to earn an entry in the Guinness Book of Records. By Day 2, he was unable to focus his vision sufficiently to watch television. He also suffered astereognosis, or the inability to recognise things by touch. On Day 3, his physical strength and co-ordination began to deteriorate. At 3 am on Day 4, he had his first hallucination, followed by an episode of delusional paranoia. On Day 5 he continued to have either hallucinations or “hypnagogic reveries”, meaning the kind of waking dreams that occur when you are near sleep. On Day 6, his speech slowed and he had difficulty naming common objects. By Day 10, all these symptoms had worsened and he suffered from a more personalised paranoia. On Day 11, he was still physically fine, apart from a slight heart murmur which disappeared after he had slept normally. His attention span was very short and his eyes drifted, unable to focus. The symptoms are similar across a number of documented cases, including a Trivial Pursuit marathon in the Netherlands. ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/28 "2001-01-25T21:41:06Z")
IJGrieve, Check out [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=53694](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=53694). Also check out a neat little book called [Sleep Thieves](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684831848/o/qid=980458380/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/105-5158866-7727100) by Stanley Coren (1996). It delves into the mysteries of sleep. As mentioned in the above thread, the record for staying awake the longest is 264 hours by Randy Gardner, a 17 year-old high school student from San Diego, California in 1964. ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/29 "2001-01-25T21:46:30Z")
D’Oh!! hibernicus, didn’t see your earlier reference to Coren’s book. Beat me to the Randy Gardner reference…oh, well 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/30 "2001-01-25T22:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hibernicus \* > adult dogs die of lack of sleep after around 13 days. Their brains show many small haemorrhages at autopsy. Interesting…IIRC, one of the physiological effect of fatigue is dilation of blood vessels to increase blood flow (and thus, oxygen supply) to compensate. That dilation is what makes your eyes red when you’re short on sleep. Could the referenced hemorrhages be related? ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/31 "2001-01-25T22:49:04Z")
**eponymous** thanx. I missed that thread because when I did my pre-post search, I searched in the subject only for ‘sleep’–and of course that thread has ‘awake’ in the title instead :o It looks like the UK Game Show Pages didn’t check their Guinness Book of Records 🙂 But, would it be possible to stay awake _touching a truck_ for 11 days? ---
**Author:** ![Nurlman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Nurlman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nurlman)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628/32 "2001-01-25T23:17:14Z")
Somebody nosed around this earlier in the thread, but there is a medically recognized condition in which lack of sleep results in death. It’s called “[fatal familial insomnia](http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~jcthomas/JCTHOMAS/1997%20Case%20Studies/AAkroush.html)” and at least one poster here, **lindsay** , seems to have [some understanding of it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=28653). (Note that the linked thread is also one of the oddest and vaguely troubling things I’ve ever seen on these boards…) FFI is a genetic disorder that fortunately, is quite rare. Unfortunately, it usually manifests itself around age 50, so people who have it often pass it on unkowingly to their children. Here’s the short version: > [@](#): > > There are four stages of the disease before an individual’s life ends. The first stage is progressive insomnia, the trade mark of fatal familial insomnia. The first stage develops over approximately four months and includes a collection of psychiatric problems such as panic attacks and bizarre phobias. The second stage includes > hallucinations, panic, agitation and sweating and lasts about five months. The third stage lasts about three months and is total insomnia with weight loss. The individual > at this point looks much older and may experience incontinence. The fourth stage is around six months long and is recognized as dementia, total insomnia and sudden > death after becoming mute. Creepy, huh? Try not to think about it if you can’t sleep tonight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-without-sleep/51628.md?page=1)