# Gold Medal vs World Record **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548 "2016-08-12T12:10:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/21 "2016-08-12T22:40:03Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That’s all true, but you still don’t say Cathy Rigby is the Olympic champion in gymnastics, unless you’re talking to people who follow the sport closely enough to not be confused. You say she’s the former Olympic champ, or the 1968 Olympic champ. I think “former” is incorrect in this usage. She is _an_ Olympic champ, and _the_ 1968 Olympic champ–always. As we say in baseball, flags fly forever. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/22 "2016-08-12T22:47:14Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That’s ridiculous; I’m not saying anything even close to that. I’m not even saying it’s wrong to consider a gold medal more important than a world record, although I disagree with that evaluation. I’m saying I don’t understand why world records are almost completely ignored in comparison to gold medals. I could see if it was like 55-45 in favor of the medal, but it’s more like 95-5, and I see no justification for that. But, they’re not ignored… when they’re broken in the service of winning a gold medal and/or a world championship. When they’re, not, they’re still not “ignored” per se, but breaking a record isn’t the goal of the people competing in that sport, winning a championship/medal is. If you break a record, but don’t win anything, then when someone comes along in twelve years and demolishes your record, you fall into irrelevancy. But, if you win a gold medal, you’re always going to be a gold medalist. You said that you don’t see any justification for why the value of medals over records isn’t closer to 55/45, instead of the 95/5 that you perceive it as. From my point of view, I can’t think of any justification for why the records should be valued anywhere close to 45 percent. Like that one football coach said, you play to win the game. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/23 "2016-08-12T23:10:28Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > But, as the marathon article illustrates, conditions in clocked events can still vary more than enough to make the difference. The greatest marathon performances ever might have never stood as world records. It was an interesting article, but it didn’t really explain why it’s taken so long to break the record. How hard would it be to hold a marathon on a flat course with gentle turns in cool weather? Besides, it’s a two-hour event, so of course the variations are going to be larger than in a ten second sprint or whatever. And besides all that, I think the marathon is obscure enough that it might be an exception to the rule. I think that whoever holds the world record, especially if it’s stood for so long, probably has more prestige than the guys who have won gold since then. But since I don’t follow it, I could easily be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/24 "2016-08-12T23:11:54Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > You said that you don’t see any justification for why the value of medals over records isn’t closer to 55/45, instead of the 95/5 that you perceive it as. From my point of view, I can’t think of any justification for why the records should be valued anywhere close to 45 percent. Like that one football coach said, you play to win the game. I will cheerfully agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/25 "2016-08-12T23:21:05Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I think “former” is incorrect in this usage. She is _an_ Olympic champ, and _the_ 1968 Olympic champ–always. > > As we say in baseball, flags fly forever. Well, that may be a saying, but it doesn’t make much sense to me. Are you saying that it’s perfectly reasonable to refer to the Cubs as “the World Series champion Chicago Cubs,” based on 1908 or whenever? And everybody seems to be ignoring my point about how gold medals may be won against inferior competition compared to, say, a world championship (which typically gets very little press). Whoever wins gold in track events this year will do it against a Russian-less field. Whoever won anything in the 1980 Olympics did it with the US team absent. How can that be better than beating every previous time ever recorded anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/26 "2016-08-12T23:21:27Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > It was an interesting article, but it didn’t really explain why it’s taken so long to break the record. How hard would it be to hold a marathon on a flat course with gentle turns in cool weather? > > **Besides, it’s a two-hour event, so of course the variations are going to be larger than in a ten second sprint or whatever.** > > And besides all that, I think the marathon is obscure enough that it might be an exception to the rule. I think that whoever holds the world record, especially if it’s stood for so long, probably has more prestige than the guys who have won gold since then. But since I don’t follow it, I could easily be wrong. There’s no pacing or tactics in the 100m. The Marathon is tactical because the medal is the goal. Because of the (relatively) slow pace, pacing errors are easy to make and out of proportion to the consequences. 2-3 seconds per mile is the difference between glory and a stumbling jog to the finish, even for a world-class runner. If a runner aims for a world record and hits the wall, it’s a four year wait to the next chance if qualifying is even possible. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/27 "2016-08-12T23:27:58Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > There’s no pacing or tactics in the 100m. > > The Marathon is tactical because the medal is the goal. Because of the (relatively) slow pace, pacing errors are easy to make and out of proportion to the consequences. 2-3 seconds per mile is the difference between glory and a stumbling jog to the finish, even for a world-class runner. So setting a world record in the marathon is much harder than setting one in the 100m. Makes perfect sense. So why wouldn’t a world record be that much more prized because of that fact? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/28 "2016-08-12T23:35:15Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > So setting a world record in the marathon is much harder than setting one in the 100m. Makes perfect sense. So why wouldn’t a world record be that much more prized because of that fact? Because some day, someone will be faster. Even after a record is broken, the athlete will often still be referred to as “former world record holder [name].” More lasting fame is if the record is under a specific mark, such as the four minute mile or 2:10 marathon. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/29 "2016-08-12T23:36:52Z")
Because you can break a world record at any officially sanctioned event, but you can only win a gold medal at the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/30 "2016-08-12T23:52:40Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > Because you can break a world record at any officially sanctioned event, but you can only win a gold medal at the Olympics. I said that in the OP. That makes a gold medal more rare, and that’s what the TV announcers hype. It’s exactly analogous to the heavily hyped four majors in golf having much more prestige than a regular PGA tour event, even though many regular PGA tour events had stronger fields than the British Open and PGA championship, for many years. IMO the hype is wrong. But I’ve made my case as best I can, and I don’t seem to be getting anywhere, so thank you everyone for your responses. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/31 "2016-08-13T00:04:45Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > It was an interesting article, but it didn’t really explain why it’s taken so long to break the record. How hard would it be to hold a marathon on a flat course with gentle turns in cool weather? It would be easy, but it’s not particularly desirable. The objective is not to get all-time record times under ideal conditions–it is to win that particular title race. > [@TonySinclair](#): > > Are you saying that it’s perfectly reasonable to refer to the Cubs as “the World Series champion Chicago Cubs,” based on 1908 or whenever? It is correct to call them the 1907 and 1908 champion club. You’ve probably heard the Yankees called the 27-time champions, even in years like this one in which they are neither the last nor likely next winners. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/32 "2016-08-13T02:22:08Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Well, that may be a saying, but it doesn’t make much sense to me. Are you saying that it’s perfectly reasonable to refer to the Cubs as “the World Series champion Chicago Cubs,” based on 1908 or whenever? I think it’s a little different when talking about a person rather than a team. To take another example, it’s common and usual to refer to “gold medal winner Carl Lewis” even though he hasn’t won a medal in 20 years. Once you win a gold medal, you are forever a gold medal winner. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/33 "2016-08-15T17:12:48Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > But, they’re not ignored… when they’re broken in the service of winning a gold medal and/or a world championship. When they’re, not, they’re still not “ignored” per se, but breaking a record isn’t the goal of the people competing in that sport, winning a championship/medal is. Heh. I hadn’t realized it’s not hypothetical: at the 1964 Olympics, a [javelin thrower](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1964_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_javelin_throw) set a world record in the qualification round that narrowed the competitors down from 16 to 12; those 12 then competed in the final – not on another day at another stadium, but then and there – and nobody could match Gorchakova’s earlier feat, and “nobody” _includes Gorchakova,_ but two other folks missed it a bit closer than Gorchakova did, and so Gorchakova wound up with the bronze. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/34 "2016-08-15T19:29:33Z")
In 2001 the Seattle Mariners tied a record for the most wins in a season, winning 116 games. The previous record was set in 1906 so really it’s the modern record. They didn’t win the World Series, though. Didn’t even make it. Now, do you think Seattle Mariners fans would rather than 116 wins, or do you think if given the opportunity to change history, they’d make them win 109 games and have them win the World Series? It’s a silly question because everyone knows the answer. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/35 "2016-08-16T00:34:08Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heh. I hadn’t realized it’s not hypothetical: at the 1964 Olympics, a [javelin thrower](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1964_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_javelin_throw) set a world record in the qualification round that narrowed the competitors down from 16 to 12; those 12 then competed in the final – not on another day at another stadium, but then and there – and nobody could match Gorchakova’s earlier feat, and “nobody” _includes Gorchakova,_ but two other folks missed it a bit closer than Gorchakova did, and so Gorchakova wound up with the bronze. That’s a perfect example. Sure, he should be disappointed he didn’t get the gold, but he should be elated that he got the world record, and if it were me, I’d rather have the world record. I admit that my preference might change if it had been in a more marketable event than javelin. I also admit that my chances of setting a world record in any track and field event are below 50%. WELL below. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/36 "2016-08-16T00:42:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In 2001 the Seattle Mariners tied a record for the most wins in a season, winning 116 games. The previous record was set in 1906 so really it’s the modern record. > > They didn’t win the World Series, though. Didn’t even make it. Now, do you think Seattle Mariners fans would rather than 116 wins, or do you think if given the opportunity to change history, they’d make them win 109 games and have them win the World Series? > > It’s a silly question because everyone knows the answer. It’s also a bad analogy, because it’s a team sport, and not measured against something objective like a clock or tape. Team sports, sports that are judged rather than measured, and sports where you can win with a mediocre performance if your opponent is even more mediocre, don’t really lend themselves to this question. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/37 "2016-08-16T01:36:36Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That’s a perfect example. Sure, he should be disappointed he didn’t get the gold, but he should be elated that he got the world record, and if it were me, I’d rather have the world record. Uh, slight nitpick: that was for _women’s_ javelin, which I now see I didn’t specify. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/38 "2016-08-16T01:49:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Uh, slight nitpick: that was for _women’s_ javelin, which I now see I didn’t specify. But that was four years before they started sex testing at the Olympics. 🙂 ETA: Googling her, I see that she also won a bronze at the 1952 Olympics, so she had a pretty long peak. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/39 "2016-08-16T02:00:50Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That’s a perfect example. Sure, he should be disappointed he didn’t get the gold, but he should be elated that he got the world record, and if it were me, I’d rather have the world record. I’d bet you a dollar that _she_ wouldn’t… if she were still alive. Not only that, but she only held the record for eight years so, in the end, she didn’t have either. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548/40 "2016-08-16T02:24:57Z")
Take the example of Peyton Manning. In his first couple years with the Broncos, he set all kinds of personal performance records at QB. Eye popping stats! But the Broncos did not win the Super Bowl, and so the achievement seemed somewhat empty. In his final year, Manning’s stats were not so spectacular, but the team crushed the competition all the way through the Super Bowl. NOW Manning could retire confident that he’d made a bid for best of all time- he had the stats, but more importantly he had the ring. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gold-medal-vs-world-record/762548.md?page=3)