# Goldfish and cold climates **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2000, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018 "2000-06-20T18:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/1 "2000-06-20T18:42:33Z")
Please help me solve this dispute twixt my mother-in-law and I. One of us says that a goldfish can survive freezing. One of us says bullcrap. Freeze it and it’s a goner. I have no desire to send one to potentially meet it’s maker, or even to provide one with less than temperate water. Have any of you seen information on this? I could swear I saw an paragraph or two about it a few years ago, hidden in an article about cryogenics. Thanks! P.S. I chose to keep the parties anonymous lest I incur some kind of favor for my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/2 "2000-06-20T19:53:13Z")
I’d guess you were the one saying it can be frozen, because you “could swear [you] saw an paragraph or two about it a few years ago, hidden in an article about cryogenics.” I’ve often wondered the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/3 "2000-06-20T19:58:21Z")
Well, shut my mouth. You got me, Johnny. Wish I had used the preview button :o) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/4 "2000-06-20T21:40:56Z")
As far as I know, goldfish and other solely aquatic creatures survive the winter’s freezing by going deep enough to escape the ice. Every site I read about goldfish stated thatt hey can survive in water that is _freezing_ (i.e. about 32°F) but not a one said they can survive in water that is _frozen_. I nother words, they may surive the winter under 5" of ice in their bitter cold pond, but sticking one in the Frigidaire will result in nothing than a dead frozen goldfish (try adding some to your mixed drinks at the next party!) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/5 "2000-06-21T00:24:24Z")
There was an article in the Dec 1990 _Scientific American_ (Sorry, their online archives don’t go back that far) that talks about how this works. Sadly, they don’t mention goldfish, but it’s a good source for the physics and biology of the process. My WAG would be that “wild” goldfish (sorry again, but that phrase just made me laugh) didn’t evolve in wintry climates. I think of them as tropical for some reason. Therefore, they would never have evolved a mechanism for living in icy conditions. Of course, the easy way to find out would be to put the fishbowl in the freezer… ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/6 "2000-06-21T00:35:32Z")
Well, I do know that fresh fish tastes far better than frozen fish. If fish came back to life when thawed, they should taste just as good, so I’d say the freezing is irreversible. Is nobody going to voluntteer to stick a (domesticaed?) goldfish in the freezer? Surely someone here must have some goldfish doomed to be fed to other pet fish? ---
**Author:** ![Kvallulf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@Kvallulf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kvallulf)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/7 "2000-06-21T00:44:08Z")
I had two Pirahanas that were fed goldfish about every 5th day, and I can assure you that once frozen, it does not come back to life. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/8 "2000-06-21T02:32:16Z")
Goldfish are carp (or near enough as makes no difference) and there are plenty of carp in northern lakes and rivers. However, as noted above, they don’t freeze in the winter (Holden Caulfield notwithstanding). I have not found any evidence of carp being frozen and thawed alive. (Absence of evidence does not…etc., but I would not give much credence to the frozen fish survival rates at this point.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/9 "2000-06-21T13:38:27Z")
Well, it looks like we have a bit of a quandry. Although everyone agrees that the little bugger could survive the intense cold of **near** freezing water, it’s unlikely that it could survive the actual crystalization of being frozen. It appears that there is only one way to get the dope on this. A friend of mine has an Oscar. A really big one. The size that could eat a goldfish. I will document meticulously. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/10 "2000-06-21T13:41:17Z")
Freezing is one method of euthanizing aquarium fish, including goldfish. ---
**Author:** ![jcarbon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d78d45/32.png) [@jcarbon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jcarbon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/11 "2000-06-21T13:49:28Z")
Now I’m afraid to thaw the Mrs. Paul’s for lunch today. See what you’ve done. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/12 "2000-06-22T01:43:00Z")
So you’re suggesting that fish can withstand not only freezing and thawing, but decapitation, filleting, and a light seasoned breading? Wow. Them buggers should be ruling the world! ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Thrush](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@Wood\_Thrush](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Thrush)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/13 "2000-06-22T02:45:04Z")
**Smeghead** , they are ruling the world! They’re controlling the mass media! They have microphones hidden in your sink! It’s a conspiracy! Tell every one! They must be— Hey— get your flippers off me! What are you doing with that ice cube! NO!!! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/14 "2000-06-22T02:58:12Z")
That implies, of course that gold fish bowls and aquariums are submersible devices or vehicles from which they observe us. Which is silly, of course. If goldfish really ran the world, they would let me pos ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/15 "2000-06-22T13:36:07Z")
Long-term freezing? Of course not. But it stands to reason that goldfish may have a mechanism that lets them survive freezing for short periods, like the human “diving reflex” that lets us occasionally survive hypothermia and anoxia for periods up to an hour. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/16 "2000-06-22T13:47:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Long-term freezing? Of course not. > > But it stands to reason that goldfish may have a mechanism that lets them survive freezing for short periods, like the human “diving reflex” that lets us occasionally survive hypothermia and anoxia for periods up to an hour. > \*\* small ponds freeze solid. So, I says to myself, I says “How could they possibly This is more like what I was getting at. My initial thinking was about koi ponds in Japan. Or China. Wherever. From what I’ve seen in Nat’l Geographic, it gets pretty damn cold there. When it gets good and cold _here_, survive the winter? Are they taken inside into Koi Aquariums?” And so the battle began. P.S. Even if I am right, I will still be wrong. Consider with whom the argument is taking place. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/17 "2000-06-22T14:09:46Z")
The guy who writes the Ponds and Pond Fish column for Aquarium magaziene lives in New England and takes his Koi inside for the Winter. They are not cold water fish. His goldfish he leaves outside in a deep pond. As long as the water does not freeze and they have time to adapt, goldfish metabolism slows down and they sort of sleep through the cold temperature. I have observed my goldfish behaving like zombies under the ice. Very little movement. They are not hibernating like bears, but that is the most descriptive term that I can come up with. If a goldfish were to freeze, the water in his cells would freeze, the cells would rupture and he would die. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/18 "2000-06-22T14:53:52Z")
carnivouousplant, thank you. I’m sure that I can win this arguement with that on hand. You are hereby elevated to venusflytrap. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2000, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/19 "2000-06-23T01:26:47Z")
Well, I bring my goldfish into bed with me when it’s cold out. Of course, it’s not really a heat issue, but that’s a different topic… Gotta go. My fish is mad at me. Sorry, O great one! ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goldfish-and-cold-climates/23018/20 "2000-06-23T01:34:13Z")
When I was a kid, I liked to catch local minnows and keep them in an aquarium (these are the days when I lived in Indiana). But, before I progressed to the aquarium, they were usually confined to a well-decorated tub, usually one that had previously housed a gallon of cheap ice cream. My first minnow hung out in the garage 'cause, well, that’s where he was allowed to be (minnows jump, and mom had already cleaned up enough dried-up fish remains in her time). He happily swum around through the fall, greedily ate the fish food flakes, and lived a decent captive life. But winter came around. A cold winter. One night it dipped into the teens, and the following morning when I went out to feed the little feller, I found fish, water, plastic plants, and all frozen _solid_. (Must have been destiny, what with him being kept in the ice cream bucket and all…) I tried thawing him out in hopes of resurrection…but ah well. No more minnow, at least live. When thawed, he floated around in the typical dead-fish manner. He’s no goldfish, mind you, but Indiana minnows are a heckuva lot more resilient than pet store goldfish. Both can live in a freezing cold environment, but neither can survive being actually _frozen_.