# Golf Question - Hole Out and Remove Flagstick ???

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-question-hole-out-and-remove-flagstick/432089>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [January 3, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-question-hole-out-and-remove-flagstick/432089 "2008-01-03T03:49:15Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\
**Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-question-hole-out-and-remove-flagstick/432089/1 "2008-01-03T03:49:15Z")

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If a golfer ‘holes out’ from off the green, are there any special rules about the procedure for removing the ball?

I ‘seem to remember’ there used to be a requirement that the flagstick must first be removed without also causing the ball to pop back out (and that’s not a slam-dunk). I never heard the justification for this rule, although I assumed it had to do with the case of a ball being only ‘partly’ in the hole, somewhat like a ‘leaner’ in horseshoes.

Anyhow I’ve seen a number of hole-outs on TV in the last several years (hole-in-one, chip-in, whatever) where the player just retrieves his ball without removing the flagstick.

I’ve tried googling the rules of golf but didn’t have any luck.

So, has there ever been any rule covering this situation?

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**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\
**Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-question-hole-out-and-remove-flagstick/432089/2 "2008-01-03T04:11:55Z")

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I’ve only had a “leaner” once. I grabbed the flagpole, bent it the opposite way, and wrote my score down. I’m usually a stickler for the rules (i.e. play it as it lies), but didn’t have any problem with this one. Sorry, no cites.

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**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\
**Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-question-hole-out-and-remove-flagstick/432089/3 "2008-01-03T04:14:51Z")

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Under the R&A rules (and I expect USGA is effectively identical), the ball is deemd Holed (see Definitions)

> [@](#):
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> when it is at rest within the circumference of the hole and all of it is below the lip of the hole.

Hence under these circumstances the player may just retrieve their ball. If the ball is not Holed, then rule 17-4 applies and the player

> [@](#):
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> may remove the flagstick and if the ball falls into the hole, the player shall be deemed to have holed out with his last stroke.

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**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\
**Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-question-hole-out-and-remove-flagstick/432089/4 "2008-01-03T04:18:02Z")

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17-4. Ball Resting Against Flagstick

When a player’s ball rests against the flagstick in the hole and the ball is not holed, the player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the flagstick, and if the ball falls into the hole, the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if moved, must be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.

[http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html](http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html)

ETA: What **amarone** said.