# Golf - was this legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503 "2004-02-16T16:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/1 "2004-02-16T16:53:45Z")
Watching the silent TV in the pub today, showing some golf competition, no idea what, I saw this happen: A player slices his ball under a tree, near the trunk. The only way he can get at it to play a shot is kneeling. He does so, using some item of clothing to kneel on (poor lad, didn’t want his knees to get wet). Surely this is artifically improving his stance? If he’d wanted to _stand_ on a piece of cloth, he’d have been laughed off the course. So should he have been able to kneel on one? ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/2 "2004-02-16T17:06:06Z")
Dec. 13-3/2 Playing Stroke While Kneeling on Towel Q. A player’s ball was under a tree in such a position that he found it expedient to play his next stroke while on his knees. Because the ground was wet, the player placed a towel on the ground at the spot where his knees would be situated so that the knees of his trousers would not get wet. He then knelt on the towel and played his stroke. Was the player subject to penalty under Rule 13-3 for building a stance? A. Yes. One of the pros (Stadler, i think) got busted for this a few years back. I think a viewer called in the violation. It is a pretty famous video and you were probably seeing it being replayed. Which would make sense since Stadler won the Champions Tour even this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/3 "2004-02-16T17:15:17Z")
> [@aktep](#): > > One of the pros (Stadler, i think) got busted for this a few years back. I think a viewer called in the violation. It is a pretty famous video and you were probably seeing it being replayed. Which would make sense since Stadler won the Champions Tour even this weekend. They did. I was flipping back and forth betwen the Senior and PGA golf events, and saw that particular video being replayed on one of them. Unfortunately, I can’t remember which of the two televised events played it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/4 "2004-02-16T17:22:10Z")
I don’t think it was a replay of that event - I’ve just checked, and the (live?) coverage was of the Buick Invitational. Hmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/5 "2004-02-16T18:18:46Z")
Here’s the deal. Stadler won the Champion’s tour event this weekend, so they were playing some old footage of when he had the kneeling shot (I think it was 10 yrs ago or so). He layed a towel down so he wouldn’t get dirty, but was penalized (2 strokes?) for “improving his stance”. That’s against the rules, and he should’ve known it. It may seem silly, but there’s no way to distinguish that from laying something down to give you more even footing. Can’t do it. BTW, the Champions Tour is what used to be called the Senior Tour (for the 50+ age group). Also, Stadler’s son, Kevin, had the lead on Thurs in the PGA event at Torrey Pines this week (although he finished pretty far down the list on Sunday). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/6 "2004-02-16T18:26:41Z")
[Here’s a video of the shot and an explanation of the rule](http://www.usga.org/rules/video/Archives.html). Stadler’s vignette is the 2nd to the last from the bottom. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/7 "2004-02-16T22:14:35Z")
I saw this clip shown during the coverage of the Buick; it was Craig Stadler at the 1987 tournament at Torrey Pines (was it called the Buick then?), so they were showing it because that was the tourney this weekend, and Stadler won the champion’s event this week. I’m pretty sure he was actually disqualified from the tournament, as he had already turned in his score without adding the penalty. He would’ve finished second. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/8 "2004-02-16T22:30:40Z")
**b** : You’re right about the disqualification. The video clip I linked to explains it pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/9 "2004-02-16T23:41:39Z")
Damn, I can’t get that clip to work, so I can’t confirm that it’s what I saw - but it does sound like it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/10 "2004-02-17T00:00:07Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Damn, I can’t get that clip to work, so I can’t confirm that it’s what I saw - but it does sound like it. Did you try both ways? It’s definitely what they showed during the golf tournament yesterday, because I saw it, too. The commentary might be different, but was definitely Stadler, and definitely that shot. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/11 "2004-02-17T00:11:38Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It’s definitely what they showed during the golf tournament yesterday, because I saw it, too. Guess it must have been that, then. Well, at least I know the rules of golf better than I thought 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/golf-was-this-legal/229503/12 "2004-02-17T01:38:28Z")
[minor hijack] Does anyone else realize what Statler and Daly winning the Senior and PGA event on the same day means? Fat Guys rule! And Daly did it while wearing a “TrimSpa” logo on his shirt! How’s **that** for irony! [/minor hijack]