# Gonzalez may have lied to Congress; Dem calls for special prosecutor **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261 "2007-07-10T21:05:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/21 "2007-07-26T17:21:43Z")
I have hesitated to make a strong statement on this issue for a number of reason, not the least of which was concern over personal consequences; in real life I work for a federal contractor that has dealings with the Department of Justice, and although those relationships are not with the AG himself or his senior staff, I was worried that some revelation might nonetheless have some negative impact. However, in light of the mounting evidence that Gonzales has lied under oath, I feel it would be dishonest to continue to remain silent on this point. Gonzales should resign, be fired, or be impeached (in order of decreasing preference) and the question of his perjury should be submitted to a grand jury. It is absolutely unconscionable that the nation’s chief cabinet officer for law enforcement have such disregard for the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/22 "2007-07-26T18:12:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Another reason is that the Senate would have to confirm his replacement. Imagine the things that would come up in the confirmation hearings. [/QUOTE] Nothing. It would be a continual litany of “I don’t recall” and “I would have the judge the situation on its merits”. Unless you actually think that there hasn’t been a single (potential) Supreme Court Justice with an actual opinion on abortion? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/23 "2007-07-26T18:52:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] It is absolutely unconscionable that the nation’s chief cabinet officer for law enforcement have such disregard for the rule of law. [/QUOTE] But he still has the confidence of the President! So everything’s peachy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/24 "2007-07-26T19:21:44Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Nothing. It would be a continual litany of “I don’t recall” and “I would have the judge the situation on its merits”. Unless you actually think that there hasn’t been a single (potential) Supreme Court Justice with an actual opinion on abortion? -Joe [/QUOTE] Point is, Dem senators would use the confirmation hearings to spotlight everything wrong that’s been done in the DoJ under Gonzalez and ask the nominee what he/she would do to fix it. Regardless of how the nominee answers, W doesn’t want **that.** ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/25 "2007-07-26T19:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] But he still has the confidence of the President! So everything’s peachy. [/QUOTE] There is no virtue that cannot become a vice if overused. President Bush has proven that “loyalty” is no excpetion to that rule. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/26 "2007-07-26T19:41:44Z")
Since no one else has done it, I’m going to commend **Bricker** for stepping out from behind the lectern and calling a spade a spade for once. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/27 "2007-07-26T19:46:50Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Gonzales should resign, be fired, or be impeached (in order of decreasing preference) and the question of his perjury should be submitted to a grand jury. It is absolutely unconscionable that the nation’s chief cabinet officer for law enforcement have such disregard for the rule of law. [/QUOTE] Thanks for saying that. I think it’s time for a bipartisan group to stroll down Pennsylvania Avenue and explain to Bush that if Gonzo’s not gone by the time they return from the August recess, impeachment proceedings re Gonzales will start soon afterward. Hopefully that will give Bush time to exercise one of those first two options, rather than Congress having to exercise the third one. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/28 "2007-07-26T19:48:05Z")
Doin’ a heck of a job, Gonzo. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/29 "2007-07-26T19:50:50Z")
[QUOTE=OttoDaFe] Replacing Gonzalez would present Bush with an unpleasant Hobson’s Choice (as if there’s any other kind). He’d have to to find a candidate who could a) get confirmed, and b) be counted on to keep the lid on the current crop of [White House Horrors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_horrors). [/QUOTE] I’ve been convinced for some time that this is why Gonzales is still employed. If Bush has to replace him, all the options are bad: if he hires another political hack, the likelihood of confirmation plummets. But if he hires a non-hack, the DoJ might actually do its job, with attendant consequences to the Administration. So unless Bush can find a hack with an undeserved reputation as a straight shooter… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/30 "2007-07-26T20:04:00Z")
[FBI Director Contradicts Gonzales](http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QKFK4O0&show_article=1) > [@](#): > > FBI Director Robert S. Mueller said Thursday the government’s terrorist surveillance program was the topic of a 2004 hospital room dispute between top Bush administration officials, contradicting Attorney General Alberto Gonzales’ sworn Senate testimony. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/31 "2007-07-26T20:20:05Z")
Here’s a [good commentary](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/25/gonzales/index.html) on the issue of “other intelligence activities” Gonzales falsely testified about, and the continuing failure of the DOJ to reveal what these activities (which were “so wrong and illegal that the Attorney General [Ashcroft] and FBI Director and various deputies all threatened to quit” over them) were. > [@](#): > > Beyond Gonzales’ long-established chronic lying, then, the critical issue that has to be addressed is this: what did these “other intelligence activities” entail? How can we not know the answer to that question? After all, even the President’s own DOJ appointees – who are radical enough in their own right to have authorized warrantless eavesdropping even in the face of FISA – all unanimously and emphatically concluded that it was unlawful. And, by all accounts, it did stop – more than three years ago. > > What this means is that our own Government was spying on us using methods even more blatantly illegal than the “Terrorist Surveillance Program” that was revealed. Whatever these “other programs” entailed shocked the conscience even of the right-wing Bush lawyers in the DOJ. Thus – as Marty Lederman put it – “Can You Even Imagine How Bad it Must Have Been?” > > What arguable excuse is there for continuing to conceal from Americans what our government did? Whatever it was they were doing is unquestionably illegal. It has been abandoned for years now, removing any “national security” justification for ongoing secrecy… > > It is not news that there were “other intelligence activities” besides the “Terrorist Surveillance Program” that were illegal and extreme. We have known that for a-year-and-a-half based on how they have parsed their answers. And we knew it inescapably once James Comey said that he was going to quit once he realized what they were doing and how illegal it was. > > Our Beltway political class just has chosen not to demand to know what was done, notwithstanding its blatant illegality. How can we just allow these government activities – of plainly illegal government spying on us during 2001-2004 – to remain concealed? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/32 "2007-07-26T20:33:21Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] There is no virtue that cannot become a vice if overused. President Bush has proven that “loyalty” is no excpetion to that rule. [/QUOTE] If Bush were loyal to anyone but himself, I might go along with you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/33 "2007-07-27T00:15:23Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] It is absolutely unconscionable that the nation’s chief cabinet officer for law enforcement have such disregard for the rule of law. [/QUOTE] Fine to say that _now_, innit? Where were you when he was finding ways to authorize torture, by dismissing the Geneva Conventions as quaint and obsolete? Boosting him to us as a laudable nominee for the Supreme Court, as I recall. You’re too many years behind the rest of us, but at least you seem to be catching up. Now, what do you propose be \*done \* about this situation you now find unsconscionable? Or about the executive(s) who keep it in place? Can you join us in saying the I-word, or limit yourself to simply deploring the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/34 "2007-07-27T01:07:04Z")
It’s right here, **Elvis** : [QUOTE=Bricker] Gonzales should resign, be fired, or be impeached (in order of decreasing preference) and the question of his perjury should be submitted to a grand jury. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/35 "2007-07-27T01:19:55Z")
What **Squink** said. On this one, **Elvis** , I can’t see any daylight between **Bricker** ’s position and my own. Dunno if that’s a sign of the impending apocalypse or what, but keep your flashlights, duct tape, and life preservers handy, kids… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/36 "2007-07-27T01:20:21Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] It’s right here, **Elvis** : [/QUOTE] There’s one person who can make any of those three happen. He can make them happen immediately. I wonder what **Bricker** feels the consequences should be for a man who not only appointed this pathetic toady, but continues to give his full confidence and support. You love the law, **Bricker** , and the man to whom you’ve shown your slavish devotion continues to amply demonstrate what he thinks of it. Maybe if he were to literally wipe his ass with the Constitution? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/37 "2007-07-27T01:29:36Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Gonzales should resign, be fired, or be impeached (in order of decreasing preference) and the question of his perjury should be submitted to a grand jury. It is absolutely unconscionable that the nation’s chief cabinet officer for law enforcement have such disregard for the rule of law. [/QUOTE] Thank you, **Bricker**. I think I understand how difficult a conclusion that must be for you. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/38 "2007-07-27T01:30:28Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Gonzales should resign, be fired, or be impeached (in order of decreasing preference) and the question of his perjury should be submitted to a grand jury. It is absolutely unconscionable that the nation’s chief cabinet officer for law enforcement have such disregard for the rule of law. [/QUOTE] Sorry if this is piling on, but… Do you find the president’s actions in this matter to be unconscionable as well? The president has the power to end this fiasco, but he chooses to condone the AG’s actions with his public support. If the AG’s actions warrant his removal, why isn’t the president’s removal also warranted? The AG’s mendacity and the president’s support of it, seem to leave but one reasonable conclusion…that the AG’s actions have been taken at the behest of the president. If there were more direct evidence of the president’s role in this mess at the Justice Department, would you then support his removal? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/39 "2007-07-27T01:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=plnnr] I saw portions of his testimony, and the guy is either hopelessly inept (how long as he been aware that he’s going to be called again to testify? and then to get up there and answer “I don’t know,” or “I don’t recall” to questions he knew were coming (Leahy sent his questions in advance, IIRC) or an outright liar. Why the President keeps him on is beyond me, except for Bush’s huge ability to deny what’s right in front of his face in the name of loyalty. [/QUOTE] [Captain Terrel] I’m afraid that it’s even harder than you think, doctor. [/CT] He _did_ get the questions in advance. Supposedly, Bush is so loyal to Gonzo because Gonzo saved Bush’s bacon in the DUI case. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261/40 "2007-07-27T01:53:23Z")
He’s loyal to Gonzales because Gonzales is the only person who can keep the truth from coming out. If AG steps down, the next AG nominee has to be approved by the Senate, and there’s no way another Bush-loyal stonewaller is going to pass Senate muster. Without Gonzales in the DoJ, some actual investigating might be done and then it’s bye-bye Bush 43. Gonzales is the linchpin of the whole administration right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-may-have-lied-to-congress-dem-calls-for-special-prosecutor/411261.md?page=3)