# Gonzalez to resign, be replaced by Chertoff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890 "2007-08-25T15:02:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/41 "2007-08-27T20:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=5 time champ] I think they got the timing off though, Labor Day isn’t until next Monday. Why not wait to make the announcement until this Friday @ 4:45 pm starting the long Labor Day weekend? Or is Gonzo really that incompetent that he got his days mixed up? Or maybe there is more bad news [for the Bush Administration anyway] to come out later this week? [/QUOTE] That’s the question on my mind, too. First Rove bails, now Gonzo? Why is that? Is there some bomb about to go off? Some emails that got into the hands of someone not evil? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/42 "2007-08-27T20:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Which underlines that if it is Chertoff, its by default, not by choice. [/QUOTE] Hello? Am I the only one thinking of the hearings, here? Gonzales resigns. Senate Democrats get to rake the replacement nominee over the coals for all of the lapses, imagined or not, of his predecessor. Gonzales resigns and Chertoff replaces him. Senate Democarts get to rake the replacement nominee over the coals for all of the lapses, imagined or not, of his predecessor **then get to do the same thing to the new Homeland Security nominee**. Do you all really think the administration wants some nominee facing 10 days of ‘So how do YOU think Bush fucked up in killing a major American city?’ questions? The safe money is anyone other than a sitting cabinet official. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/43 "2007-08-27T20:32:04Z")
Its not like they got a lot of choices here. Either way, its a shit sandwhich, they are reduced to prefering mayonaise over mustard. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/44 "2007-08-27T20:38:11Z")
An interesting take on the timing of all this, from Talking Points Memo, without which no citizen can hope to be well informed… [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/051656.php](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/051656.php) Offered without further comment. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/45 "2007-08-28T13:44:27Z")
There is, of course, one other possiblity - Bush will simply leave the position open and have the number two guy play AG for the next year. A few minutes back I thought, “We’ll be able to figure this out when Bush’s presidential papers become available for study someday.” But then I realized that, given this administration’s track record on accountability, when the George Walker Bush Presidential Library and Grill opens for business, the official archives will fit comfortably in a single file cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/46 "2007-08-28T16:05:27Z")
From [Greg Palast’s recent interview with fired U.S. Attorney David Iglesias:](http://www.gregpalast.com/american-nightmare-gonzales-wrong-and-illegal-and-unethical/#more-1825) > [@](#): > > _“They misjudged my character, I mean they really thought I was just going to roll over and give them what they wanted and when I didn’t, that I’d go away quietly but I just couldn’t do that. You know US Attorneys and the Justice Department have a history of not taking into consideration partisan politics. That should not be a factor. And what they tried to do is just wrong and illegal and unethical.”_ > > When a federal prosecutor says something is illegal, it’s not just small talk. And the illegality wasn’t small. It’s called, “obstruction of justice,” and it’s a felony crime. > > Specifically, Attorney General Gonzales, Iglesias told me, wanted him to bring what the prosecutor called “bogus voter fraud” cases. In effect, US Attorney Iglesias was under pressure from the boss to charge citizens with crimes they didn’t commit. Saddam did that. Stalin did that. But Iglesias would NOT do that - even at the behest of the Attorney General. Today, Captain Iglesias, reached by phone, told me, “I’m not going to file any bogus prosecutions.” > > But it wasn’t just Gonzales whose acts were “unethical, wrong and illegal.“ > > It was Gonzales’ boss. > > Iglesias says, _“The evidence shows right now, is that [Republican Senator Pete] Domenici complained directly to President Bush. And that Bush then called Alberto Gonzales, the Attorney General, and complained about my alleged lack of vigorous enforcement of voter fraud laws.“_ > > In other words, it went to the top. The Decider had decided to punish a prosecutor who wouldn’t prosecute innocents. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/47 "2007-08-29T22:29:57Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] I think the DEMS would pull the same shit if they thought it would work. [/QUOTE] _Tweeet!_ Flagrant _tu quoque_, offense, fifteen yards, loss of down. The Chertoff issue, btw, would be that it would involve 2 Senate hearings, not 1, neither of which Cheney is in any position to brass a nominee through. The subject matter would be 2, not 1, of the least responsibly managed departments in the administration. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/48 "2007-08-30T13:43:48Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] _Tweeet!_ Flagrant _tu quoque_, offense, fifteen yards, loss of down. [/QUOTE] Not really. My intent was not really to establish a moral equivalence between the Dems and the Pubbies, but to say that the attractiveness or turning the federal D.A.s into a partisan tool to be used to overlook election rigging and to selectively prosecute political opponents – which is CLEARLY what Bush and Rove were aiming at – is so great that members of both parties would look long and hard at it. Let’s face it, once you have the people who enforce the law lined up on your side, the laws as written are meaningless – you can do anything you like. This is clearly Rove’s idea. This is why I hate the man. In part. He has no more respect for the democratic process than Joseph Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/49 "2007-08-30T13:46:21Z")
When you can point to any example of the Democrats actually doing it, not just you \*imagining \* it, please do so. :rolleyes: Upon further review, the play stands as called. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/50 "2007-08-30T15:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] The Chertoff issue, btw, would be that it would involve 2 Senate hearings, not 1, neither of which Cheney is in any position to brass a nominee through. The subject matter would be 2, not 1, of the least responsibly managed departments in the administration. [/QUOTE] Unless W decides to nominate Chertoff for AG and leave the secretariat of Homeland Security vacant – and if he did leave it vacant, who would notice? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/51 "2007-08-30T15:51:23Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] when the George Walker Bush Presidential Library and Grill opens for business, [/QUOTE] That’s _Bar_ and Grill. I can’t imagine his place being dry. I think Chertoff would rather get a prostate exam from Senator Craig than appear in a confirmation hearing. There are way too many things he’d rather not discuss in front of a hostile panel. I agree with the no current cabinet member theory. Of all the names bandied about, I think Orrin Hatch would be the best choice and would sail right through. [QUOTE=Evil Captor] turning the federal D.A.s into a partisan tool to be used to overlook election rigging and to selectively prosecute political opponents – which is CLEARLY what Bush and Rove were aiming at – is so great that members of both parties would look long and hard at it. Let’s face it, once you have the people who enforce the law lined up on your side, the laws as written are meaningless – you can do anything you like. This is clearly Rove’s idea. This is why I hate the man. In part. He has no more respect for the democratic process than Joseph Stalin. [/QUOTE] Absolutely. I have no doubt that future historians will remember this decade as the closest the US has ever come to a dictatorship. The scary thing is if they were _competent_ Machiavellians, they might have well succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/52 "2007-08-30T16:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Of all the names bandied about, I think Orrin Hatch would be the best choice and would sail right through. [/QUOTE] [Hatch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orrin_Hatch) has his Senate seat (and considerable seniority) until 2013. Why would he give that up to be AG for a year and a half? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/53 "2007-08-30T16:09:58Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Hatch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orrin_Hatch) has his Senate seat (and considerable seniority) until 2013. Why would he give that up to be AG for a year and a half? [/QUOTE] Beats the crap out of me but the talking heads on TV keep bringing up his name. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/54 "2007-08-30T16:22:28Z")
_Maybe:_ Being a Republican, his seniority isn’t worth much now or in the foreseeable future anyway. He’d be replaced by another Utah Republican anyway. He’s ready to retire after his current term anyway. He’s enough of a patriot to want to clean up DOJ, not complete its partisanization. He has a clean enough public image to look like he’s doing it, too. He’d be confirmed without a party-damaging fuss. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/55 "2007-08-30T16:27:56Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] He’s enough of a patriot to want to clean up DOJ, not complete its partisanization. [/QUOTE] Then why would Bush even consider him?! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/56 "2007-08-30T18:00:34Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] When you can point to any example of the Democrats actually doing it, not just you \*imagining \* it, please do so. :rolleyes: Upon further review, the play stands as called. [/QUOTE] The Dems have a long history of rigging elections. Think Chicago in 1968. Befo0re the ciil rights movement, the Dems in the South did everything they could, legal and illegal to keep blacks from voting. All that is ancient history, of course. But it does decry the notion that election rigging is stricltly a Pub thing. It’s more of a Pub thing right now because the Pubs don’t have the votes to win elections honestly and they know it — hence Karl Rove.But a swing of the pendulum could easily lead to Dems taking up where Rove has (hopefully) left off. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890/57 "2007-08-31T15:07:22Z")
[Gonzales’ troubles are definitely not over:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/30/AR2007083000995.html?hpid=topnews) > [@](#): > > The Justice Department’s inspector general indicated yesterday that he is investigating whether departing Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales gave false or misleading testimony to Congress, including whether he lied under oath about warrantless surveillance and the firings of nine U.S. attorneys. > > The disclosure by Inspector General Glenn A. Fine in a letter to Congress signals an expansion of the department’s internal investigations into Gonzales’s troubled tenure, probes that were not previously known to be focused so sharply on the attorney general and his testimony. > > Fine’s office has also separately expanded a probe into whether senior Gonzales aides improperly considered partisan affiliations when reviewing applicants for nonpolitical career positions. As part of that inquiry, Fine sent hundreds of questionnaires in the past week to former Justice Department job applicants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzalez-to-resign-be-replaced-by-chertoff/416890.md?page=2)