# Gonzomax, you surprised and disappointed me. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028 "2009-03-02T17:09:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/201 "2009-03-06T19:50:54Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > You suck=you suck dick=you are a homosexual (as an insult from a man to another man) > > By saying that something sucks you are imparting a negative connotation to it, and implying that homosexuality is negative. No, you suck = you suck eggs. There is more than a little evidence to suggest that phrase doesn’t derive from what you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/202 "2009-03-06T21:02:03Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I’ve heard there are women who suck dicks, too… Yeah, right. Somewhere out there, there is this MAGIC woman who actually does something like that! 🙂 \*I’ve been married too long. Anyhoo..xt, since you (almost) concede that the term “you suck” started as a slam against gay people, but has since evolved into something else, why couldn’t gonzo’s comments be taken the same way? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/203 "2009-03-06T21:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Anyhoo..xt, since you (almost) concede that the term “you suck” started as a slam against gay people, but has since evolved into something else, why couldn’t gonzo’s comments be taken the same way? [/QUOTE] I did no such thing…in fact, I totally disagree with your interperetation that this has anything to do with a slam against gay people. At most, it originally had sexual overtones, whether hetero or home-sexual was completely open. And I explained why it’s different in any case. Let me spell it out. When you call something ‘faggoty’ or a ‘faggot’ it’s the same as calling someone a ‘nigger’ or ‘nigger like’. Saying ‘you suck’ is similar to saying ‘fuck you’…i.e. it’s an insult. Additionally, the term ‘you suck’, having been in common usage for decades, has lost most if not all of it’s sexual context. The term ‘fag’ however still has direct implications and connotations toward homosexuals, and so is a DIRECT insult, and intentionally so. See the difference? Had gonzo said ‘gay’ instead of ‘faggot’ he MIGHT have had an escape, as ‘gay’ has, somewhat, lost it’s direct connection in common usage to homosexual (however, in the context he used it, it would have been fairly clear that it DID have that implication…he probably would have been given a pass on it). Since he didn’t use that term and instead chose a less ambiguous one he is rightfully getting his chops busted. -XT ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/204 "2009-03-07T04:11:13Z")
Gonzo and the Magic Talking Thesaurus: A Cautionary Tale Gonzo: Hrmmm. Look at that overembellished, aesthetically displeasing thing. It reminds me of how flamboyant faggots are. Magic Thesaurus: No no Mr. Gonzo my good sir. Associating negative qualities, especially flamboyant fashion choices, with homosexuality is insulting. Using one of the most caustic slurs against homosexuals in the bargain is just that much worse. Gonzo: Fuck you, talking book! The only things that talk to me are my TeeVee and mah other TeeVee, you shut up! Magic Thesaurus: Ahhh, you scamp, but seriously. When you wish to talk about obnoxious fashion choices, why not use non-offensive words or phrases? Like “That dog’s coat has been turned into a fluffy absurdly” or “Good Lord, it looks like the Easter Bunny got drunk and ate a pound of jelly beans, and then vomited up that dog’s coat.” or “I do say good sir, that canine’s coat is a flamboyantly and obnoxious overwrought fashion choice which is both impractical and silly looking. Were that animal transformed into a person by a genie’s magic, it would surely be garbed in a hot pink mink coat with Christmas lights flashing all along its length.” Gonzo: Shut up. Besides, why would I listen to some book named after a dinosaur? Magic Thesaurus: Wait, what? Did you actually just say that you think there was once a giant lizard that roamed the land, and it was named a Thesaurus? Gonzo: Can’t fool me, lizard-book. I bet you’re trying to Jew me out and raise your value by pretending you aint no lizard. I’m wise to you, faggot. Magic Thesaurus: What the fuck? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/205 "2009-03-07T07:58:35Z")
Finn, that is the funniest thing in the world at 2 AM. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/206 "2009-03-07T13:36:50Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Gonzo: Shut up. Besides, why would I listen to some book named after a dinosaur? > > Magic Thesaurus: Wait, what? Did you actually just say that you think there was once a giant lizard that roamed the land, and it was named a Thesaurus? Post of the week, if just for these two lines. Kudos. And **gonzomax** : I find your style of debate to be confusing and extremely hard to follow. Perhaps if you phrased your arguments more cogently, you would come across better to the rest of us? You may feel that you are being persecuted unfairly by “children” who viciously taunt you with insults, but I doubt that you actually have such a low opinion of the posters on this board in general. In other words, if you really think that we’re all a bunch of mean and petty children, then why do you spend so much of your time here in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/207 "2009-03-07T18:15:10Z")
Bah! **Gnozomax** , If you really want get everybody up in arms Just call someone a Christian. Then you’ll really get pitted. Or better yet, claim to be a Christian. Probably 10 or 12 pages worth of hate thrown your way.😉 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/208 "2009-03-07T23:25:22Z")
The English language had deteriorated into a hybrid of hillbilly,valley girl ,inner city slang and various grunts. Joe was able to understand them ,but when he spoke in a normal voice he seemed pompous and FAGGY to them. I don’t want to talk like a dick or anything but your chart says you are all fucked up and you talk like a FAG and your shit is retarded. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/209 "2009-03-08T00:20:03Z")
I have to say, you’ve outdone my parody. You seem to really think that talking like a character out of Idiocracy will _help_ your case. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/210 "2009-03-08T00:29:51Z")
The irony is that gonzo is supposed to be fairly old…he claims to be anyway and I have no reason to doubt him on this score at least. Considering his own use of the English language (or lack there of), saying “The English language had deteriorated into a hybrid of hillbilly,valley girl ,inner city slang and various grunts” (my emphasis), especially after admitting earlier in the thread his supposed use of ‘faggot’ and ‘fag’ as linked in the OP was due to slang by younger folks…well, this is simply off the scale. Sometimes I find it hard to believe that anyone is this stupid…and at those times I think gonzo is just playing us from under his bridge. At other times I think…yeah, he really IS this stupid and clueless. Human carrot? Cunning troll? A sort of carrot level intelligence/troll hybrid? Who can say? It’s a mystery… -XT ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/211 "2009-03-08T14:49:30Z")
Psst. Xtisme? Movie quote. Oddly enough, the point made in the movie was that a person expected to be educated, professional, and capable, a doctor, was, in fact, a complete low-class yutz with a reprehensible personality and no self-awareness. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/212 "2009-03-08T15:24:45Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The English language had deteriorated into a hybrid of hillbilly,valley girl ,inner city slang and various grunts. Joe was able to understand them ,but when he spoke in a normal voice he seemed pompous and FAGGY to them. > > I don’t want to talk like a dick or anything but your chart says you are all fucked up and you talk like a FAG and your shit is retarded. Were you the basis for the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Daffyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daffyd/32/8923_2.png) [@Daffyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daffyd)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/213 "2009-03-08T15:29:27Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Were you the basis for the movie? Why do I feel like I’m in some bizarro-world by being attacked by people in this thread who are supposedly confronting homophobia? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/214 "2009-03-08T16:03:56Z")
All right. I’m straight but I’ve had gay people in my life since I was 6. It’s not unusual at all for gay people, and friends of gay people, to use ‘‘gay’’ or ‘‘fag’’ in an endearing way within their inner circle. In fact there are all kinds of usually pejorative terms that are used descriptively and non-offensively in this specific context. A dyke is different than a lipstick lesbian is different than a twink. In high school I was a proud Fag Hag. I use the words fag, dyke and gay pretty regularly around my gay and gay-friendly friends, including my best friend. I’ve known her since fourth grade, and I used to write her platonic love poetry in high school. Nobody would ever doubt our devotion to one another. I’m \*deeply \*offended at the notion that just because I grew up in a social circle where such things are deemed non-offensive in specific social contexts, I hate gays or am contributing to their oppression. [Whatever.](http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/IUoiXJLCMT0aV1k34z8ruA?feat=directlink) Having said that, The Straight Dope is not your best circle of friends. You have to consider that those kind of words may be taken to mean something other than what is intended. Therefore it is poor judgment to use ‘‘gay’’ or ‘‘fag’’ in any way remotely pejorative, however well-intentioned, because obviously there are people like **jayjay** who _are_ hurt by it. I don’t think the n-word is a fair analogy. I think ‘‘ghetto’’ is more apt. ‘‘Ghetto’’ to describe something broke-down can be interpreted as racist or not depending on the people you’re with. I’ve witnessed some major racial conflicts play out when a white person describes something as ‘‘ghetto.’’ You can’t really know how your words will be taken unless you are intimate with those individuals present. Discretion is advisable in 99.9% of social contexts. My sister-in-law, when she was fourteen, disdainfully and publicly declared something ‘‘gay’’ once, and I read her the riot act, to which she defensively replied, ‘‘It doesn’t have anything to do with sexuality, it’s a harmless word.’’ A year later she told us she was a lesbian. She still calls stupid things ‘‘gay’’ and so do all her friends. I’m pretty sure they do it in a hipster, ironic way, as everyone knows she’s gay – ‘‘Don’t you think that’s so gay?’’ ‘‘Yeah, that’s totally gay.’’ It’s almost like an inside joke. In general, though, I think the ‘‘don’t say gay’’ crusade is a bit of a wasted effort, because probably half the people who use it are not prejudiced against homosexuals. Better to expend that energy on worthless failures of parents who reject and torment their own children for arbitrary reasons like sexuality. I regard those repugnant human beings on the same level as child abusers, and something needs to be done about it. ‘‘Don’t say gay’’ distracts from the very real oppression homosexuals face in this country, in the same way that ‘‘don’t say women are bitches/cunts’’ distracts from the problems women face. I’m aware there are reasonable arguments in favor of fighting the good fight on all fronts large and small, and I’m also vividly aware of the power that language has in society, and I totally respect the alternative viewpoint espoused by **jayjay** and **Annie X-mas** … but I have considered it carefully and still come down on this side. Additionally, it’s pretty clear that **gonzomax** isn’t calling bad things gay… he’s calling _flamboyant_ things gay. (By the way, **jayjay** , you made me cry with the drag queen/flamboyance thing.) **gonzomax** was not prudent with his language, but that doesn’t mean he’s The Oppressor. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/215 "2009-03-08T19:50:13Z")
I would suggest that most of us could recognize the style,decoration and taste that could be called faggy. There is a loosely defined bumbershoot that it falls under. Show up at a golf outing in a pink shirt and purple pants and socks and then listen to the jibes. Nobody would say you are gay. They would not think in those terms at all. Some would say you picked faggy clothes. How would they be able to say that if we did not have a generally agreed upon picture of faggy in our minds? Who would the remarks insult? I think this is mush noise about nothing. I was sure XT would not get the movie quotes. But it did not stop him from responding . I was sure it would not. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/216 "2009-03-08T19:52:17Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Were you the basis for the movie? That was so weak. Why would you make such a lame response? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/217 "2009-03-08T23:20:40Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Psst. Xtisme? Movie quote. Oddly enough, the point made in the movie was that a person expected to be educated, professional, and capable, a doctor, was, in fact, a complete low-class yutz with a reprehensible personality and no self-awareness. [/QUOTE] :smack: Never saw it so completely missed the reference. I must have missed his quote tags and link demonstrating that it wasn’t his thoughts… Oh, he didn’t use any. 😛 Though in retrospect I suppose I should have seen that the sentence was coherent, so perhaps I should have attempted to look up the reference. It’s ironic that he would use that reference in his own defense though. -XT ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/218 "2009-03-08T23:27:36Z")
Exceptionally so. Now, if you don’t mind, I’m going to go listen to the most heterosexual man in the world play the guitar… > **[Prince Rogers Nelson Photo Gallery](http://www.morethings.com/music/prince/prince_rogers_nelson_images/index.htm)** > > Photo gallery for Prince Rogers Nelson, including Super Bowl pictures, Purple Rain and Planet Earth ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/219 "2009-03-09T02:50:27Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > :smack: Never saw it so completely missed the reference. I must have missed his quote tags and link demonstrating that it wasn’t his thoughts… > > Oh, he didn’t use any. 😛 Though in retrospect I suppose I should have seen that the sentence was coherent, so perhaps I should have attempted to look up the reference. It’s ironic that he would use that reference in his own defense though. > > -XT Defending myself. Is that what you think I am doing? I know how I think about gays. I owe no one any apologies. I have never judged people by color or sexual orientation. You will get no defense because I do not owe one. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028/220 "2009-03-09T04:47:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Some would say you picked faggy clothes. How would they be able to say that if we did not have a generally agreed upon picture of faggy in our minds? Who would the remarks insult?. The remarks would insult gay people. When you say something is “faggy”, you’re insulting gay people. Don’t call things faggy! I really don’t know how to make things in this thread any clearer than that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gonzomax-you-surprised-and-disappointed-me/488028.md?page=12)