# Good Article on Benedict Arnold! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 15, 2015, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704 "2015-10-15T06:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/1 "2015-10-15T06:09:04Z")
Enjoyed reading the article by **Elendil’s Heir** : [What was the deal with Benedict Arnold?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3253/what-was-the-deal-with-benedict-arnold) And by an odd coincidence, I’ve seen his Continental uniform coat. There are some descendants of Arnold here in Canada, and the coat has been passed down to them. I saw it on a school tour once. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/2 "2015-10-15T11:40:40Z")
One of the cool parts of the Saratoga Monument is there are four niches for statues, one on each side of the obelisk. Philip Schuyler, Horatio Gates and Daniel Morgan each have statues, but the fourth niche - for Benedict Arnold - is empty. Oh and definitely agree it was a great article. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/3 "2015-10-15T12:46:06Z")
> [@jonesj2205](#): > > One of the cool parts of the Saratoga Monument is there are four niches for statues, one on each side of the obelisk. Philip Schuyler, Horatio Gates and Daniel Morgan each have statues, but the fourth niche - for Benedict Arnold - is empty. And yet, Arnold’s service is not completely without a memorial. There is a monument at Saratoga to Arnold’s leg, wounded in battle. [Behold the Boot Monument](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Monument). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/4 "2015-10-15T15:48:25Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > And yet, Arnold’s service is not completely without a memorial. There is a monument at Saratoga to Arnold’s leg, wounded in battle. [Behold the Boot Monument](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Monument). Which also “contrives not to name him.” Thanks for the kind words, all. I’m grateful to **TubaDiva, C K Dexter Haven** and **Gfactor** for their encouragement and assistance, and of course to **Ed Zotti** for bringing it forth to the ignorance-fighting Doper masses. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/5 "2015-10-15T16:10:27Z")
By an odd coincidence, I had watched Erin McGathy rather slurringly discuss this on Drunk History the night before this article was published. **Elendil’s Heir** , your article was much more coherent, but it unfortunately lacked Winona Ryder clutching a plastic baby doll. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/6 "2015-10-15T19:36:17Z")
There’s one part of the article that was unclear to me: > [@](#): > > They arrested André and passed the papers up the chain of command until they reached Washington himself, but not before **the general** and a small group of aides had reached the Arnold house at West Point. (emphasis mine) Which general does this refer to: Washington, Arnold, or a British general? And at what point in this chain of events did the British actually take control of West Point? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/7 "2015-10-15T19:56:54Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > There’s one part of the article that was unclear to me: > (emphasis mine) > Which general does this refer to: Washington, Arnold, or a British general? And at what point in this chain of events did the British actually take control of West Point? Washington. And West Point was not taken. Arnold was a major, by the way. That was a great column, **Elendir’s Heir**. Have you (or anyone else reading this), ever come across the story that Arnold, late in life, when the British and French were in their 800th[sup]1[/sup] war, was taken prisoner by the French (not that he was military, but as captain of the British merchant ship, and recognized for being that infamous guy), and that he escaped by pulling up floorboards from the cabin he was locked in, dropping them out the porthole, and using them as flotation devices when he exited? I ran across that in a YA biography of Arnold, and I’ve never seen it anywhere else. [sup]1[/sup]Rough estimate ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/8 "2015-10-15T20:00:45Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > There’s one part of the article that was unclear to me: > (emphasis mine) > Which general does this refer to: Washington, Arnold, or a British general? And at what point in this chain of events did the British actually take control of West Point? They never did. (Yes, that part of the article is a bit confusing. “The General” means Washington.) What happened was that the American OD, seeing that André had been carrying secret papers from Arnold, sent a courier to Arnold saying, “Hey, there’s something strange going on here that you should know about.” A little later, Benjamin Talmadge, head of G-2, turned up, and realized what was really going on. He tried to forestall the courier with one of his own, but the lead was too great. In the meantime, Washington and other officers turned up at West Point for an inspection tour, but Arnold, having learned from the first rider what had happened, fled downriver to the HMS Vulture. Peggy Arnold put on her famous impromptu mad scene for Washington, which had everybody convinced of her innocence (except, by an ironic coincidence, Aaron Burr); it was only after General Sir Henry Clinton’s papers became public, decades later, that the truth came out. West Point was saved, Arnold was lost, and André was doomed. West Point was important because it was British doctrine throughout the war that it was all the fault of the Congregationalists in New England, and that control of the Hudson would allow the British to cut New England off; they expected to see the other nine colonies quickly rejoin with the motherland to defeat the New England rebels. (This was really a misanalysis, but it’s what they believed.) However, if you will look at a detailed map, you will see that as long as the Americans held West Point, and the mighty chain they had placed across the river there, they could deny the Hudson to the British indefinitely. After the war, Washington, figuring that the strategic situation would never happen again, decided that West Point, no longer necessary as a stronghold, would be a good place to build the US Military Academy. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/9 "2015-10-15T20:04:32Z")
So did Arnold’s betrayal actually help the British? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/10 "2015-10-15T20:07:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Enjoyed reading the article by **Elendil’s Heir** : [What was the deal with Benedict Arnold?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3253/what-was-the-deal-with-benedict-arnold) > > And by an odd coincidence, I’ve seen his Continental uniform coat. There are some descendants of Arnold here in Canada, and the coat has been passed down to them. I saw it on a school tour once. Did it turn? Heh, heh, heh. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/11 "2015-10-15T20:28:25Z")
> [@bup](#): > > …That was a great column, **Elendir’s Heir**. Have you (or anyone else reading this), ever come across the story that Arnold, late in life, when the British and French were in their 800th[sup]1[/sup] war, was taken prisoner by the French (not that he was military, but as captain of the British merchant ship, and recognized for being that infamous guy), and that he escaped by pulling up floorboards from the cabin he was locked in, dropping them out the porthole, and using them as flotation devices when he exited? I ran across that in a YA biography of Arnold, and I’ve never seen it anywhere else… Thanks. I vaguely recall coming across that story in my research, but couldn’t swear to its accuracy. The books in my reference list are a good place to start if you want to learn more. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/12 "2015-10-15T20:37:05Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > … **Elendil’s Heir** , your article was much more coherent, but it unfortunately lacked Winona Ryder clutching a plastic baby doll. Y’know, I asked Winona to help me out here, but she didn’t return my calls. That’s Hollywood for you! > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > So did Arnold’s betrayal actually help the British? I would say no. West Point didn’t fall, André was executed, the Continental cause was fired with righteous indignation, Arnold failed to recruit significant numbers of other disaffected American troops, and his later raids pretty much could have been led by any other officer. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/13 "2015-10-15T21:51:35Z")
Surely Benedict Arnold can’t be described as a traitor to his country as there was no country (other than England) to be a traitor to? In effect he changed sides in what was essentially a civil war. All the opprobrium seems a little out of place to me. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/14 "2015-10-15T22:22:42Z")
A clear case of history written by the winners. Had things turned out differently you would see many monuments to Benedict Arnold, the loyalist hero who was faithful to his King and Mother Country in the War of American Treason. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/15 "2015-10-15T22:25:11Z")
Loyalist traitor! Go back to England, **aldiboronti**! Anyway, how do the demon Moloch and the Headless Horseman fit into this? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/16 "2015-10-15T23:29:44Z")
Excellent article **Elendil’s Heir**. > [@aldiboronti](#): > > Surely Benedict Arnold can’t be described as a traitor to his country as there was no country (other than England) to be a traitor to? In effect he changed sides in what was essentially a civil war. All the opprobrium seems a little out of place to me. Maybe a little less a traitor than General Lee, but he swore to give service to the rebels and then sold out. He tried to sell out General Washington himself, the man who probably supported him the most. He was a traitor in nearly every sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/17 "2015-10-15T23:39:50Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Maybe a little less a traitor than General Lee :rolleyes: Lee had the honesty and decency to take his stand openly–to resign his US Army commission, repudiate the US President, and swear his new allegiance, before taking up arms against his former countrymen. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/18 "2015-10-16T00:06:46Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Maybe a little less a traitor than General Lee, but he swore to give service to the rebels and then sold out. He tried to sell out General Washington himself, the man who probably supported him the most. He was a traitor in nearly every sense of the word. General Washington swore an oath to King George and England, which he then betrayed. Washington is a traitor in every sense of the word. In a revolution, everyone is a traitor to one side or other. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/19 "2015-10-16T00:14:15Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > :rolleyes: > Lee had the honesty and decency to take his stand openly–to resign his US Army commission, repudiate the US President, and swear his new allegiance, before taking up arms against his former countrymen. You know, I’m not I’m not any expert on the minutiae of American history. Tell me, did General Washington resign his army commission before taking up arms against his former countrymen? I ask for information. It’s possible that he did. I honestly don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704/20 "2015-10-16T00:27:05Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > General Washington swore an oath to King George and England, which he then betrayed. Washington is a traitor in every sense of the word. > > In a revolution, everyone is a traitor to one side or other. Washington was not a serving officer at the time of the Revolution last I checked. Arnold & Lee were. Big difference. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-on-benedict-arnold/734704.md?page=2)