# Good article(s)/site(s) making the pro-Hillary case **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 2, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267 "2016-06-02T00:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/41 "2016-06-05T18:42:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s easier to smear a politician when their personality is not as likeable. And Obama was smeared a whole lot. Remember the Kenyan and Muslim stuff? I remember Hillary perpetuating the Muslim thing. > [@](#): > > As for the OP, I think the best answer is just to point out where Clinton and Sanders agree on the issues, and show how much Trump disagrees. Then maybe point out Trump’s volatile nature. > > Even if you want to call Clinton evil, she’s the evil we know. And no one but her or Trump can win, so voting for someone else is pointless. Vote against Trump. > > Instead of the evil you think Clinton might be doing in the shadows, look at the evil Trump does right out in the open. I think this is unintentional irony. The OP is asking for the merits of Clinton in her own right, not as a comparison to Sanders or Trump. Your response is, compare her to Sanders or Trump. Some of this is a result of the two party system but this is just blatant. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/42 "2016-06-05T18:47:28Z")
wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/43 "2016-06-05T22:13:01Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I remember Hillary perpetuating the Muslim thing. Please tell us more. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/44 "2016-06-05T23:12:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yes, once a narrative is established it is difficult to break the paradigm with facts, right Adaher? Then why haven’t Republicans just started that paradigm with every major Democrat? It is truly delusional of Democrats to think that she’s “fundamentally honest”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/45 "2016-06-05T23:15:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s easier to smear a politician when their personality is not as likeable. And Obama was smeared a whole lot. Remember the Kenyan and Muslim stuff? Hard to call something a “smear” when it doesn’t actually leave a smear.🙂 Not much has stuck to Obama. And while I wouldn’t call Obama “fundamentally honest” either, his career has been free of major scandal. Politicians have the stink of scandal around them because they are actually scandalous. The real issue with the Clintons is that they think the rules don’t apply to them and they’ve got an awful lot of enablers who insist it’s all just peachy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/46 "2016-06-05T23:35:44Z")
And you’re going to give us an actual, factual example any day now, aren’t you? :rolleyes: It’s time to drop the desperate insinuations before you embarrass yourself any further. Put up or shut up, okay? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/47 "2016-06-05T23:37:29Z")
Let’s start with the email, since Obama’s own IG said it was not allowed, nor was it secure, and also broke the rules on records retention. Those are just a couple of the rules that apparently don’t apply to Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/48 "2016-06-05T23:43:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s start with the email And you’re stopping there, too. Yes, we know how desperately you need that to \*be \*something. But it just isn’t, is it? > [@](#): > > Those are just a couple of the rules that apparently don’t apply to Clinton. Go ahead. Tell us more. And don’t forget to draw comparisons to your own party’s nominee, okay? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/49 "2016-06-06T01:02:17Z")
Gary Johnson? Gary Johnson is ten times more honest and moral than Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/50 "2016-06-06T03:45:30Z")
**addy** done seen the Light, had his “Come to Johnson” moment! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/51 "2016-06-06T05:32:51Z")
ANd don’t worry. I won’t Nader you. If the race in Florida is close I’ll vote for Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/52 "2016-06-06T19:40:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hard to call something a “smear” when it doesn’t actually leave a smear.🙂 Not much has stuck to Obama. And while I wouldn’t call Obama “fundamentally honest” either, his career has been free of major scandal. Politicians have the stink of scandal around them because they are actually scandalous. > > The real issue with the Clintons is that they think the rules don’t apply to them and they’ve got an awful lot of enablers who insist it’s all just peachy. Where there’s smoke there’s fire, huh? Problem is, Republicans have been running around with smoke machines pointed in the Clintons’ direction for 25 years. If there’s a ‘boy crying wolf’ effect, they only have themselves to blame. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/53 "2016-06-06T22:05:17Z")
When it comes to public figures, yes, where there’s smoke there’s fire. And court standards of innocence and guilt don’t apply to people aspiring to a political career. Those people have to prove they are honest, we don’t have to prove they are liars. And if they withhold information that is legitimately requested by activist groups or the media, then they are presumed guilty, and rightfully so. See: Mitt Romney, tax returns. Harry Reid’s no idiot. He knew he could make outrageous claims about Romney’s taxes, because the fact he wouldn’t release the returns going back enough years was proof of guilt in the public’s mind. And Clinton’s hiding a hell of a lot more than Romney did. Romney didn’t violate any laws. Clinton did. Whether or not it rises to the level or a prosecutable offense is above my paygrade. Whether or not she violated the law is clear. The Federal Records Act says it’s a felony to destroy federal records. The State Dept. IG busted her on that, hard. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/54 "2016-06-06T22:46:37Z")
So they must disprove every whackjob conspiracy theory ever thrown at them or they look guilty. That’s the thrust of your argument. Nevermind the difficulty of having to prove an avalanche of negatives. And it turns out that strategy has been wildly successful for the Republicans. You (and many millions of others) believe that Hillary is corrupt, sans any actual finding of guilt of _anything_. You believe it, so it must be. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/55 "2016-06-06T22:52:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When it comes to public figures, yes, where there’s smoke there’s fire. No, sometimes there’s just a smoke generator. And you know which way the evidence points. The question is why you persist in trying to spread all this bullshit and innuendo and insinuation. What does it say about the character of a person who does that? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/56 "2016-06-06T22:54:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Gary Johnson? Gary Johnson is ten times more honest and moral than Clinton. When he’s sober. Aren’t you the guy who kept telling us how wonderful Christie, then Jindal, then Kasich would be as candidates, and would simply wipe the floor with Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/57 "2016-06-06T23:02:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > So they must disprove every whackjob conspiracy theory ever thrown at them or they look guilty. That’s the thrust of your argument. Nevermind the difficulty of having to prove an avalanche of negatives. One doesn’t have to disprove the ridiculous. Obama is not a Muslim and Clinton did not have Vince Foster killed. But the birth certificate thing was actually legitimate, at least until Obama released it. If he had refused to release it, then people rightly would have assumed he was hiding something. Why refuse to release your birth certificate? Likewise, why refuse to release all of your work-related emails? > [@](#): > > And it turns out that strategy has been wildly successful for the Republicans. You (and many millions of others) believe that Hillary is corrupt, sans any actual finding of guilt of _anything_. You believe it, so it must be. So no politician is guilty unless proven so in a court of law? I know you don’t believe that. And Clinton has been proven guilty to an extent greater than 99% of politicians. The IG report flatly says she broke the law. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/58 "2016-06-06T23:03:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When he’s sober. > > Aren’t you the guy who kept telling us how wonderful Christie, then Jindal, then Kasich would be as candidates, and would simply wipe the floor with Clinton? Kasich is still awesome, he just didn’t win. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/59 "2016-06-06T23:16:27Z")
A guy who couldn’t even come close to beating Trump cannot be awesome. You do get that, don’t you? > [@](#): > > But the birth certificate thing was actually legitimate :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267/60 "2016-06-06T23:33:36Z")
When I say “legitimate” I mean “an accusation that can easily be proved or disproved”. Clinton can’t prove that she DIDN’T kill Vince Foster, but Obama can definitely prove he was born in the US. Refusal to do so would have been proof of guilt because it’s so easy to disprove. Likewise, Clinton could easily disprove most of the allegations against her. Some are patently ridiculous, but others are pretty easy. She doesn’t disprove them because she can’t. She won’t release her Wall Street speeches because she has something to hide. It’s entirely reasonable for voters to assume that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-article-s-site-s-making-the-pro-hillary-case/756267.md?page=4)