Go with a classic - Why I am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell. Not heavy on specific issues, but a good philosophical text on the meaning of life, etc.
Sateryn76 beat me to it. I’m a Christian, but the most convincing argument for atheism that I’ve read was the Russell book. The current authors (Hitchens, Dawkins, etc.) seem too petty and small-minded to take seriously. Russell is serious enough to be engaged seriously.
Frankly, I’d just recommend saying no deal. The Case for Christ is so excruciatingly awful that her reading any other book we could think up in return would never be a fair exchange. Just stick needles into your eyes if you want that kind of torture.
Besides, anyone who would propose you read that book as supposedly giving good reasons to believe in God is too far removed from reality to appreciate any sane arguments at all. As just one example, the author argues in just one paragraph (out of a whole book of similar nonsense) that evolution means constantly getting more perfect (it doesn’t) and therefore the universe as a whole would have to be getting more perfect (not true even if the flawed original premise were true, which it isn’t), thus (wait for it) God must have created the universe. It’s so painfully ignorant on so many different levels that I can’t believe any Christian anywhere who actually read it and had not flunked out of high school would actually think it’s arguments make any sense at all. And if you found someone who was convinced by it, it’s a lost cause.
Yeah, from what I have read about it, I am not optimistic. I told her as much, that it sounded like a total propagandistic screed, and she got all huffy and was like “geez, I think if I said the sky was blue liberals would say ‘that’s politically incorrect!’ and argue against me, I can’t even mention a book without the defenses going up.” Which is like…ARGH. But I want to move forward with it on principle, just so I can pull the book the hell apart and see if I can make any inroads with her.
These are great suggestions, thanks all!
If it’s any consolation, it’s an extremely easy book to demolish. It could be used as an example for 10 year olds to practice refuting bullshit and logical fallacies. Strobel is a joke.
I don’t think you’re going to do any good actually challenging their beliefs. But–this book, The Beak of the Finch, is quite possibly the most entertaining, clearly explained book about the basics of evolution. In a very friendly, informative way, it makes an incontrovertibly solid case for the factual basis of evolution. If she doesn’t believe in evolution, this might be a good way to get that first chink in her armor, and possibly lead to her opening her mind on other issues.
You might as well skip the whole experiment, I guarantee you neither of you will change your mind. The definitions of “evidence” between religious (testimonial) and non-religious (historically corroborated) are too different, you’ll just talk past each other, each insisting that the other isn’t weighing evidence properly.
However, if you must, save yourself some money and go with one they’ve already got:
The Holy Bible. Ask them to read it all the way through, not just the parts that get quoted in Sunday school. After every appearance by God, ask themselves: is this the action of a loving, caring, omnipotent, GOOD being, or an almost cliched, mustache-twirling villain?
The Bible’s created more atheists than any other book I know of.
Agreed, although I still find it a more fun read than the LOTR trilogy. People always think I’m devoutly Christian if we get into Bible discussions… and then their faces melts when they realize I like it the same way I like the Iliad.
Though your opponent will probably laugh at you for recommending it. The problem with books like The God Delusion is they only work if they’re wavering in the first place, and that requires them to go through some kind of self-identity issues, or stumble across it on their own, this is impossibly to catalyze. Or rather it’s difficult and requires immense subtlety instead of argumentation and confrontation, which only serves to polarize the argument further (have you noticed most people tend to get more extremist towards their side the second they get in an argument?). As such, I’d recommend a good neutral book, does anyone know of any books that simply present both sides with as little bias as possible and say “you decide”? The key here isn’t to make her believe (or not believe, as the case may be) anything, but rather to plant little seeds in her mind that can develop.
Okay that sounds more maniacal than it’s intended, but the only way you’ll ever “convert” her, or even get her to see your side is to introduce LITTLE ideas that she may not even agree with at the time, evolution and deism can come later. The key now is just some facts arguing both sides she can read, even if she dismisses the ones from your side right away she still read them and, with any luck, one day the power will go out, she’ll get bored and start dwelling on them and those seeds will start growing. The reason the book should present both sides is because she’ll get through it easier and actually absorb the information instead of just reading it because she “has to,” an unpleasant experience won’t convince anyone, and she’ll probably forget everything in a week.
I’ll admit the flaw in this method is that your brain gets an emotional high by reading information you agree with and avoids emotional lows by discounting rational facts from the opposing side. So use the method at your discretion.
The Case for Christ is so easy to debunk point by point that I suggest you simply read it and point out all of the logical flaws to her.
I want to suggest something that is not exactly a hard-core atheist book, but rather a historical perspective on the role that spiritual questioning has played in the development of world religions.
It’s called Doubt: A History: The Great Doubters and Their Legacy of Innovation from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily Dickinson The writer identifies herself as an atheist but doesn’t really have an ax to grind, is basically approaching the ‘‘Challenge to Religious Authority’’ from a historical perspective, and includes Jesus as an example of a Doubter.
This person is probably going to take any hard-core atheist book as a personal attack, but I think Doubt will give her a better understanding of the vast diversity of world religions and the role that skepticism, whether from theists or atheists, has played in history. This will allow her to form her own conclusions without ramming an atheist philosophy down her throat. Hopefully in the very least she will come away with an appreciation for the importance of your position.
It is a phenomenal book and I would suggest you read it as well, if you haven’t already.
Rucksinator, you can’t debunk faith with logical argument, anymore than you can prove God exists with logical argument. She’s asking him to step onto her turf (which is faith-based) and he’s asking her to step onto his (which is reason-based.) But in order for any of them to actually learn anything they will have to meet in the middle somewhere.
Try Bart Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus - it’s a very scholarly but accessible work about the errors in translation, etc., in the New Testament. He started out as a Bible literalist and extremely devout born-again Christian, who lost his faith while learning ancient languages as part of his Bible study courses. He’s currently an agnostic (or atheist, I forget which) and chair of the Religious Studies department at University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill. He has some other works that might fit better, but I’ve read this one and think it’s very good.
This is highly valid. But if you’re going to insist anyway, I insist Robert Ingersoll’s Why I am agnostic be given a gander.
Dang it. I was so sure I’d be the first to mention that one.
What I really like about it is that the author is so reasonable. He explores Biblical inerrancy from a background of very conservative Christian upbringing. His explanations make good sense, and I thought they would be unthreatening to conservative Christians.
The man knows his Bible, his history, and his languages. He’s also a very good writer.
Ooh, ooh. Now she is suggesting that I read Frank Harber’s “Reason for Believing,” because I have expressed skepticism about “The Case for Christ.” It’s probably just as bad as “The Case for Christ” promises to be, but has anybody read it or heard anything about it?
I didn’t have time to read through the whole thread to see if it was already recommended, but I have found ‘Letter to a Christian Nation’ by Sam Harris to be fairly effective. It is written specifically for educated and intelligent Christians, it offers a very tightly written and brief overview of why religion is irrational is the 21st century.
Most Christians I have shared it with have found it at least a compelling rational argument, if not a convincing one.
I’m not familiar with this one. I tried googling around and found this little piece by Harber. If this is the best he can do, he’s even worse than Strobel or McDowell. Should be a piece of cake to take apart.
I guess this is his website/ Looks to be a creationist too. From what I’ve skimmed of his posts, he’s at a Jack Chick level of sophistication.
I opened the thread to recommend this. I read it in my early days of atheism (and if you think it’s easy to find a book of Bertrand Russell’s essays on an army base in Korea, think again!), and it helped show me the path.
I’m sure there are many other excellent works out there, but you know something? None of this is going to do any good. If you’re arguing Prop 8, then maybe you’d be better off agreeing to disagree about the whole God thing (In a thousand years, you will not be able to de-convert your hard-nosed atheist friend using atheist texts. It just doesn’t work.), and concentrate on the argument for separation of church and state. Maybe point out where Jesus said to be in this world but not of it, that sort of thing. That’s how you’ll bring him around.