# Good characters who do horrible, horrible things **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504 "2011-04-15T16:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/121 "2011-04-22T17:27:26Z")
In the book, _Armor_, by John Steakley, the protagonist begins the story in a prison hell-hole, where the prisoners labor in a mine or some such, and are fed some small ration of gruel that has some psychotropic effect. In order to escape, he murders another prisoner in order to eat that “man”'s gruel so he can have the strength to escape. He recognizes the unfairness and evil in his act, but is the epitome of self-preservation. > [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Yep. I mean Tigh > > killed his beloved wife for unwittingly compromising the resistance No, he killed his wife because she knowlingly compromised the resistance. She fed plans to the Cylons to protect him. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Also note that Buffy didn’t end up killing Angel without knowing it. She knew he turned back into Angel, and decided to kill him anyway. No, she was in the act of stabbing him when he turned back to Angel. She didn’t stab Angel. She stabbed Angelus, he just became Angel before being sucked into the hell dimension. [QUOTE=TBG] She didn’t really kill him anyway, just sent him to a hell dimension. I know even on the show they sometimes would say she killed him but come on, he was no more dead than Fred was when she got transported to Pylea. [/QUOTE] Well, she stabbed him through the chest, which should have killed him. It was only later after he was resurrected that we are given a story where he was actually incarnate in another dimension rather than dead. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/122 "2011-04-22T20:49:09Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Well, she stabbed him through the chest, which should have killed him. No, it shouldn’t. She stabbed him with a metal word. He’s a vampire. It would have hurt like a bitch, but it would not have killed him. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/123 "2011-04-22T21:10:41Z")
Buffy The Vampire Slayer season 2 spoilers here: > [@Irishman](#): > > No, she was in the act of stabbing him when he turned back to Angel. She didn’t stab Angel. She stabbed Angelus, he just became Angel before being sucked into the hell dimension. My recollection is, she’s got him all set up in front of the portal. He changes back to Angel and croaks, “Buffy…?” And she realizes he’s no longer Angelus. But the only way to close the portal is with his blood, so she stabs him and off he goes into the Hell Dimension. She knew he had changed back, but she decided she had to send him to Hell anyway to close the portal. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/124 "2011-04-23T00:24:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t know. He knew what Bothari was like when Bothari was serving his mother; he tended to mirror whatever was desired of him. Want a loyal retainer, you get a loyal retainer; want a monster, you get a monster. Bothari liked serving her so much in the first place because he liked what she made him be. I don’t think Miles realized what he was doing just unleashing him like that - it’s made pretty clear also that Miles was under the delusion that a lot of what the Barrayarans really did was just war propaganda. I had to check back but you’re right - at this point, Miles does think that what he hears on Beta is propaganda; however, I had also forgotten that Miles watches what Bothari does - so he’s fully culpable; he could have stopped it before it went too far. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/125 "2011-04-23T00:37:21Z")
I’d say pretty much every cop on **The Wire** would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/126 "2011-04-23T19:47:22Z")
> [@Renifer](#): > > Elizabeth Swann, at the end of Pirates of The Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest > > Veronica Sawyer from Heathers. I’m trying to figure out if she fits in or if she is exempt because of the criteria posed in the first post (basically acting deliberately of her own free will.) From what I remember she helps JD compose a suicide note for Heather Chandler because then she believes it was an accident, but when a teacher is reading the suicide note in class, she starts laughing, then quickly disguises it as crying. The scene with the cow tipping jocks, she actually shoots one of them (though she is in a bit of a daze at that point). Though most of the killing is done without her complete knowledge, there is some gray area about how she handles it for a while. I wouldn’t count Veronica’s first killing. Not volitional. She was, however being quite reckless. I’m not sure we’re meant to like her, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/127 "2011-04-23T21:34:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > As I recall it, I don’t think she actually shoots one of them. Slater’s character feeds her this line about special German tranquilizer darts that make it look like someone’s really been shot, as part of a prank they’re going to pull on the two jocks. When they get the jocks in the forest, Slater shoots his, but Veronica deliberately misses, because she thinks it’ll make the “prank” funnier. Slater runs after the guy and kills him, while Veronica finally realizes how incredibly stupid the whole “tranquilizer” thing was, and that Slater had handed her a gun with real bullets. “Ich Luge” bullets (or in English “I’m lying” bullets) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504/128 "2011-04-23T22:51:21Z")
Tobias Beecher in _Oz_, perhaps? Especially in Season 3. The conflict between Beecher and Schillinger continues throughout the run of the series. When Schillinger’s son Andy is arrested and incarcerated in Oz, Beecher sees his chance to get even with Schillinger by befriending the young man and arranging to share a cell with him. While Beecher never does anything to Andy and in fact helps him cope with his withdrawal from drugs, he leads Schillinger to believe that he is going to bed Andy, since Andy now likes him. Moved by Beecher’s kindness, Andy renounces his father and everything he believes in. Schillinger then arranges to have his own son killed, by having him thrown in solitary and asking a prison guard to deliver heroin to him in the hole, knowing he’d break from his sobriety and OD on the drug. Beecher’s co-conspirators in the plan (Keller and Ryan O’Reily) are happy about the outcome, since they have tormented Schillinger and turned his son against him. Beecher isn’t as satisfied, despite having gotten revenge, and he feels guilty for his part in Andy’s death. At this point, Beecher is cellmates with former Muslim leader Kareem Said, who convinces Beecher to resolve his guilt by asking for forgiveness from Keller and Schillinger. As the racial tension in Oz intensifies, Beecher and Saïd are the only men of different backgrounds who remain friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-characters-who-do-horrible-horrible-things/578504.md?page=6)