# Good Guy VS Bad Guy Wars where the good guy wins

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-guy-vs-bad-guy-wars-where-the-good-guy-wins/976356>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [December 12, 2022, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-guy-vs-bad-guy-wars-where-the-good-guy-wins/976356 "2022-12-12T01:47:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\
**Post date:** [December 25, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-guy-vs-bad-guy-wars-where-the-good-guy-wins/976356/81 "2022-12-25T17:26:57Z")

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What was chattel slavery retribution for? The Moorish conquest of Spain?

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**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\
**Post date:** [December 25, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-guy-vs-bad-guy-wars-where-the-good-guy-wins/976356/82 "2022-12-25T17:39:04Z")

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> [@Strassia](#):
>
> What was chattel slavery retribution for?

[Moses’ son, Ham, laughing at his naked dad.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#American/European_slavery,_seventeenth_and_eighteenth_centuries)

> [@](#):
>
> The explanation that black Africans, as the “sons of Ham”, were cursed, possibly “blackened” by their sins, was sporadically advanced during the [Middle Ages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages), but its acceptance became increasingly common during the [slave trade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade) of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.[[68]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#cite_note-68)[[69]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#cite_note-69)[[70]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#cite_note-70) The justification of slavery itself through the sins of Ham was well suited to the ideological interests of the elite; with the emergence of the slave trade, its [racialized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racialization) version justified the exploitation of African labour.

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**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\
**Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-guy-vs-bad-guy-wars-where-the-good-guy-wins/976356/83 "2023-01-03T19:33:33Z")

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I am aware of that, but the pseudo religious justifications, just like the pseudo scientific justifications were entirely post-hoc.  
I need cheap labor that I can subject to horrific conditions to make money, but as an educated man of the enlightenment, I hold that all human life has value. Therefore, I need to define someone as less than human or as deserving of horrific treatment so I can justify treating them horribly.

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**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\
**Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-guy-vs-bad-guy-wars-where-the-good-guy-wins/976356/84 "2023-01-03T21:17:37Z")

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That seems to be a particular US curse- being the first-mover, and then getting vilified because our early solution wasn’t the best one.

See cellphone standards and voltage standards for a couple of other salient examples.

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