# Good job, Senate Democrats. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306 "2008-11-18T17:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/21 "2008-11-18T19:00:19Z")
Ok, I’ll be the lone voice; I think this was the right decision. AND I think it goes perfectly well with Obama’s message of change. He ran on a platform of changing the TONE and how things work in Washington. For the past 16 years or more, the tone has been hatred, partisanship and retaliation. I, for one, am damn glad we have a President who won’t sink to those playground games. And clearly he believes this strategy has some benefit to him and the Dems in the Senate, so why don’t we just wait and see how it plays out. Besides, they can **still** remove him from his chairmanship at **any time**. If he proves not to be a team player, I suspect they’ll do so. Y’all need to just [chill the fuck out](http://punditkitchen.com/2008/09/05/political-pictures-barack-obama-chill-out-got-this/). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/22 "2008-11-18T19:05:08Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Why will he be Obama’s bitch? Because Obama is the one who’s letting him keep his leadership. I think that if Obama had given the word, the Dems would have cut him like that. I suspect that there was some dealmaking going on behind the scenes. While Lieberman probably won’t be required to go along with _everything_ the Dems want, I’m betting that the deal was for him to hang with the Dems on things like judicial appointments and probably a pre-negotiated list of legislative items that Obama really wants passed. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/23 "2008-11-18T19:10:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because Obama is the one who’s letting him keep his leadership. I think that if Obama had given the word, the Dems would have cut him like that. > > I suspect that there was some dealmaking going on behind the scenes. While Lieberman probably won’t be required to go along with _everything_ the Dems want, I’m betting that the deal was for him to hang with the Dems on things like judicial appointments and probably a pre-negotiated list of legislative items that Obama really wants passed. Why trust him to adhere to a deal again, when he broke his word last time, and nothing happened to him? And what can Lieberman realistically do if they stripped his chairmanship? And besides, any party member who says “giev chairmanship or I leave!” should be told to get fucked. They shouldn’t be held to ransom. The Democrats are spineless pussies as usual though, so I guess they can. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/24 "2008-11-18T19:11:14Z")
I’m willing to give them the benefit of a doubt re: trying to keep the caucus as strong as possible. For now. However, I’ve never made a political contribution in my life, but I will be writing checks to whomever opposes that smarmy fuckfaced troll, if it’s allowed by CT law. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/25 "2008-11-18T19:11:40Z")
Besides, has everyone forgotten [this](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/198727.php)? > [@](#): > > Roll Call reports that during a Senate vote today, Sen. Barack Obama “dragged” Sen. Joe Lieberman “by the hand to a far corner of the Senate chamber and engaged in what appeared to reporters in the gallery as an intense, three-minute conversation.” > > “While it was unclear what the two were discussing, the body language suggested that Obama was trying to convince Lieberman of something and his stance appeared slightly intimidating.” > > “Using forceful, but not angry, hand gestures, Obama literally backed up Lieberman against the wall, leaned in very close at times, and appeared to be trying to dominate the conversation, as the two talked over each other in a few instances.” > > “Still, Obama and Lieberman seemed to be trying to keep the back-and-forth congenial as they both patted each other on the back during and after the exchange. Afterwards, Obama smiled and pointed up at reporters peering over the edge of the press gallery for a better glimpse of their interaction.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/26 "2008-11-18T19:12:26Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > So you think that if he were relieved of his one chairmanship – in an area where he disagrees with Democrats – and given instead a lesser one in an area which he agrees with Democrats would force him to leave the caucus? If you read what he said, he made it very plain that he would have left the caucus if stripped of that chairmanship. He helped create the Homeland Security Department and did not want to give up that post. > [@](#): > > And what exactly would he end up doing? The Republicans aren’t going to give him shit and he knows it. I believe they already offered him a spot in their caucus. They don’t have chairmanships to offer but unlike Democrats, they wouldn’t have been kicking him in the ass. By the way, I’m in that group over here that thinks the “magic 60” issue has been blown way out of proportion. Obama’s the popular one right now, the Republicans have their own moderates, and they’re not going to be uniform in standing up to him anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/27 "2008-11-18T19:15:39Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Why trust him to adhere to a deal again, when he broke his word last time… Remind me-- what did he break his word about? ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/28 "2008-11-18T19:17:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I believe they already offered him a spot in their caucus. They don’t have chairmanships to offer but unlike Democrats, they wouldn’t have been kicking him in the ass. A spot in the Republican Caucus is worth less than a spot in the Democratic, and no chairmanship in the Republican caucus is worth less than a shittier one in the Democratic. Had Reid decided to strip him of his committee he’d have gotten a wose one for the Democrats or nothing from the Republicans which he is less like anyway. Why would he leave the Democrats? He was bluffing. The Republicans couldn’t offer him anything. Plus he doesn’t even vote like a Republican ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/29 "2008-11-18T19:18:25Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Besides, they can **still** remove him from his chairmanship at **any time**. If he proves not to be a team player, I suspect they’ll do so. A. Unless Senate rules change next session, once the resolution declaring him to be chairman of the committee is passed, that’s it. No removal. B. Jesus Christ, he campaigned for McCain and constantly slammed Obama! What the fuck does he have to do for you to declare him not to be a team player?! ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/30 "2008-11-18T19:20:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Remind me-- what did he break his word about? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBqXrc2RN0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBqXrc2RN0) ETA: IIRC that was him trying to muster up support for his independent run in 06. If this is some plan by Obama to have Lieberman be the new pet dog for the White House I can understand it, but it seems like an awful idea from a party discipline standpoint. Surely this makes it very difficult to get those Democrats in iffy states to not think about their re-election on every bill.. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/31 "2008-11-18T19:21:04Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Ok, I’ll be the lone voice; I think this was the right decision. AND I think it goes perfectly well with Obama’s message of change. He ran on a platform of changing the TONE and how things work in Washington. For the past 16 years or more, the tone has been hatred, partisanship and retaliation. I, for one, am damn glad we have a President who won’t sink to those playground games. And clearly he believes this strategy has some benefit to him and the Dems in the Senate, so why don’t we just wait and see how it plays out. > > Besides, they can **still** remove him from his chairmanship at **any time**. If he proves not to be a team player, I suspect they’ll do so. > > Y’all need to just [chill the fuck out](http://punditkitchen.com/2008/09/05/political-pictures-barack-obama-chill-out-got-this/). You’re not the lone voice. I agree with you. If the Dems pick up all three seats that are in the air then Joe Lieberman will give them 60 votes. That is huge. Additionally I have heard many rail against the Republican strong arm tactics to keep members in line. You might say the Democrats are proving themselves better than the Republicans behaved. If Obama asked the Senate to make it work and they made it work then they did the right thing. Jim (Independent that also dislikes Lieberman) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/32 "2008-11-18T19:21:45Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > Why would he leave the Democrats? Because they were telling him “fuck you, we don’t want you around.” Why would he stay exactly? There wouldn’t be anything in it for him, and the GOP actually appeared to want him while the Democrats didn’t. If you want to argue he’s a rat, you don’t need to convince me. This is a guy who sucks up to whoever he can and ran for re-election in 2000 while running for VP, even though, had he won, the seat would’ve flipped to a Republican and the Republicans would’ve taken control of the Senate. So yes, I do think he would have left. Republicans put him over the top in his last election anyway. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/33 "2008-11-18T19:21:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Remind me-- what did he break his word about? For one thing, investigating the Bush Administration response to Katrina. During the 2006 campaign, he said he’d do that if the Dems took control of the Senate, but afterwards, he said it was time to let bygones be bygones. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/34 "2008-11-18T19:33:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because they were telling him “fuck you, we don’t want you around.” Why would he stay exactly? There wouldn’t be anything in it for him, and the GOP actually appeared to want him while the Democrats didn’t. I disagree. The GOP wasn’t going to give him much in the way of committee _assignments_, and no actual _chairmanships_. If the Dems had taken away his Homeland Security & Government Affairs gavel, he’d still have had some pretty good committee assignments, and a couple of subcommittee chairs. And, let’s face it, once in the GOP caucus, he wouldn’t have been particularly popular there. He really isn’t One Of Them enough for them to like. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/35 "2008-11-18T19:40:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Jesus Christ, he campaigned for McCain and constantly slammed Obama! What the fuck does he have to do for you to declare him not to be a team player?! And campaigned for Norm Coleman, too - can’t forget that. **Shayna** : I’ve got a world of faith in Obama’s judgment, but I’ll believe that Lieberman’s not going to throw multiple monkeywrenches in Dem legislation, or spend his time investigating Obama over stuff that would make Travelgate look like a big deal, when we get through a year or so of his not doing so. His guns have always been aimed left (that’s his schtick - a Democrat who loves to slam Democrats), and I have a hard time believing he’ll break that habit now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/36 "2008-11-18T19:57:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Oh jeez, that’s what happened in 2006 and started this whole thing. Ned Lamont beat Lieberman in the primaries, but Lieberman ran as an independent and was re-elected. > What Obama said, in so many words, was ‘make it work, keep him in the caucus.’ I think it’s pretty obvious this was that only way that was going to happen. Punishing him would have been satisfying for everybody, but if the goal is getting shit done, they probably made the right choice. Aw shit, that’s right! Dammit, I forgot all about that! Then why is he still considered in the Democrat party, though? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/37 "2008-11-18T20:04:58Z")
He caucuses with them, meaning he is considered one of the Democrats for purposes of things like determining who the majority party is. The Senate’s other independent (Sanders) also caucuses with the Democrats. So when the networks talk about the 60-vote majority, for example, Lieberman and Sanders are included because it’s assumed they’ll vote with the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/38 "2008-11-18T20:05:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Aw shit, that’s right! Dammit, I forgot all about that! Then why is he still considered in the Democrat party, though? Because he caucuses with Democrats and calls himself one. Interesting bit of trivia: Lieberman will be unable to get the nomination of the Connecticut for Lieberman party in 2012, since it’s been taken over by people who don’t want him in office. He also never bothered to join it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/39 "2008-11-18T20:05:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We’ll need Lieberman’s vote to break filibusters. This puts him in the Democrats’ debt. It’s not as bad as it looks. He’ll still have his chairmanship but he’ll be Obama’s bitch. Lieberman has [publicly declared his intent](http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/17707/) to use his vote to sustain filibusters: > [@](#): > > GLENN: Do you agree that with Senator Hatch – I’ve only got a minute before a network break. I hope we can hold you here. But do you agree that Senator Hatch said to me that if we don’t at least have the firewall of the filibuster in the Senate that in many ways America will not survive. > > SENATOR LIEBERMAN: Well, I hope it’s not like that, but I fear. And I think for some of us there is a key. You know, it gets a bad name but it was really put there, a 60-vote requirement as somebody said to me when I first came to the Senate, stop the passions of a moment among the people of America from sweeping across the congress, the House, to the Senate and to a like minded President and having us do things that will change America for a long time. **So the filibuster is one of the great protections we have.** Glenn, I apologize. I’m running to go out with Senator McCain. We’re going to Colorado. Bottom Line: Reid is a spineless worm who couldn’t lead sailors to a whorehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/40 "2008-11-18T20:08:54Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Why will he be Obama’s bitch? Obama helped save his Senate seat in 2006 after his own party’s voters rejected him. Lieberman paid him back by campaigning for his opponent and publicly sliming him. (Evidently Joe’s version of Orthodox Judaisim considers the commandment against bearing false witness to be a mere suggestion.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306.md?page=3)