# Good job, Senate Democrats. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306 "2008-11-18T17:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/41 "2008-11-18T20:17:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > > [@Captain Carrot](#): > > > > Jesus Christ, he campaigned for McCain and constantly slammed Obama! What the fuck does he have to do for you to declare him not to be a team player?! > > And campaigned for Norm Coleman, too - can’t forget that. > > **Shayna** : I’ve got a world of faith in Obama’s judgment, but I’ll believe that Lieberman’s not going to throw multiple monkeywrenches in Dem legislation, or spend his time investigating Obama over stuff that would make Travelgate look like a big deal, when we get through a year or so of his not doing so. > > His guns have always been aimed left (that’s his schtick - a Democrat who loves to slam Democrats), and I have a hard time believing he’ll break that habit now. Listen, I hate Joe Lieberman. I think he’s a fucking rat and should be drowned in his own piss. That doesn’t mean that my solution (or those of the frothing millions here) is the best way to “handle” him. I think Obama’s way is not only the right way to deal with him, but also consistent with his “change” message. Again, let’s not forget how [Obama gave Lieberman the LBJ treaatment](http://ctbob.blogspot.com/2008/06/obama-gives-joe-lbj-treatment.html) (and that’s when he was a mere Junior Senator and _candidate_ for President!). If Lieberman fucks up, I’m confident Obama will be swift and thorough. But let’s give him more than half a day before we get all frothy is all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/42 "2008-11-18T20:21:59Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > If Lieberman fucks up, I’m confident Obama will be swift and thorough. But let’s give him more than half a day before we get all frothy is all I’m saying. Here’s the thing: Lieberman’s been fucking up for the past two years. He wasn’t magically rehabilitated on the 5th. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/43 "2008-11-18T20:23:07Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Lieberman has [publicly declared his intent](http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/17707/) to use his vote to sustain filibusters: > > Bottom Line: Reid is a spineless worm who couldn’t lead sailors to a whorehouse. That was said before the election (actually the day of the election, but technically before there was a winner), and it wa also said in pretty general terms. He didn’t say he would automatically vote to support _any_ filibuster, he only gave lip service to the idea that filibusters, in general, were a necessary tool (which I agree with). That’s a long way from saying he’ll necessarily side with Republicans in stoning appointments or that he won’t ever vote to break a filibuster on a legislative bill. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/44 "2008-11-18T20:23:46Z")
Why the HELL did Gore ever choose this fucking prick as his running mate in the first place? What the fuck was he THINKING? Seriously, what was the deal there? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/45 "2008-11-18T20:25:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Why the HELL did Gore ever choose this fucking prick as his running mate in the first place? What the fuck was he THINKING? Seriously, what was the deal there? He thought he needed to distance himself from Clinton and prove he was a moral man. In retrospect I think everybody agrees he blew it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/46 "2008-11-18T20:32:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Why the HELL did Gore ever choose this fucking prick as his running mate in the first place? What the fuck was he THINKING? Seriously, what was the deal there? Because Gore was a lousy candidate himself and made a lot of bad decisions in that race. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/47 "2008-11-18T20:38:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He thought he needed to distance himself from Clinton and prove he was a moral man. In retrospect I think everybody agrees he blew it. Gore didn’t just think this - he knew he had to distance himself from Clinton. But I think he could easily have done this regardless of who his running mate was. His secret weapon should have been Tipper, whose family values credibility was plenty strong. He should have not criticized the Clintons at all, but campaigned as much as possible making joint appearances with Tipper. People would have understood well enough that they’d get a traditional Democrat in office without embarrassing family drama, which they were tired of. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/48 "2008-11-18T20:39:43Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Here’s the thing: Lieberman’s been fucking up for the past two years. But not on Barack Obama’s watch. Why don’t we give the man a chance to actually govern before we choke on our own spittle. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/49 "2008-11-18T20:42:05Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Because Gore was a lousy candidate himself and made a lot of bad decisions in that race. Not nearly as bad a decision as the GOP made that year. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/50 "2008-11-18T20:43:15Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > But not on Barack Obama’s watch. Why don’t we give the man a chance to actually govern before we choke on our own spittle. I’m good on that. But Lieberman isn’t part of Obama’s government, you may have noticed. He’s a Senator. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/51 "2008-11-18T20:46:44Z")
Ok, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/52 "2008-11-18T20:47:55Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Not nearly as bad a decision as the GOP made that year. I think this is an apples/oranges argument. Whether you like Gore as a man or liked the policies he was pushing in 2000, it still should be obvious that he made quite a few tactical errors in the conduct of his campaign. And frankly, he only needed to be a little bit better to win. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/53 "2008-11-18T20:49:08Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Cowards, completely fucking spineless cowards. What threat were they inappropriately cowing to? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/54 "2008-11-18T20:52:01Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Listen, I hate Joe Lieberman. I think he’s a fucking rat and should be drowned in his own piss. > > That doesn’t mean that my solution (or those of the frothing millions here) is the best way to “handle” him. I think Obama’s way is not only the right way to deal with him, but also consistent with his “change” message. I don’t care if it’s consistent with his message, if it turns around to bite him - and us all - in the ass. > [@](#): > > Again, let’s not forget how [Obama gave Lieberman the LBJ treatment](http://ctbob.blogspot.com/2008/06/obama-gives-joe-lbj-treatment.html) (and that’s when he was a mere Junior Senator and _candidate_ for President!). If Lieberman fucks up, I’m confident Obama will be swift and thorough. But let’s give him more than half a day before we get all frothy is all I’m saying. I don’t care what treatment Obama gave Lieberman then. Did that keep Lieberman from saying nasty shit about Obama on the campaign trail? No, it sure didn’t. So I’d not be quick to ascribe utility to that confrontation, or any future encounters of a similar sort. There’s not a damned thing Obama can do to Joe, because Joe isn’t after anything for himself, except a lot of appearances on Sunday morning talk shows. And Joe has always managed to get those gigs by being a Dem who slams Dems. Broder & Co. just eat that shit up by the gallon. He knows his time in the Senate will come to an end in four years. So in the meantime, he’s free to do what he likes. And he _likes_ sticking the shiv to Dems. If we get through 2009, and Lieberman hasn’t done exactly that multiple times, I’ll be the first to come back here and start a thread saying just how wrong I was. But it ain’t the way to bet. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/55 "2008-11-18T20:56:09Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I think this is an apples/oranges argument. Whether you like Gore as a man or liked the policies he was pushing in 2000, it still should be obvious that he made quite a few tactical errors in the conduct of his campaign. And frankly, he only needed to be a little bit better to win. It’s no more apples-and-oranges than your response was to **Guin** ’s comment. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/56 "2008-11-18T20:56:40Z")
This has nothing to do with bipartisanship. This has to do with the members of the U.S. Senate representing the interests of their constituency, namely, U.S. Senators. Lieberman had club privileges, simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/57 "2008-11-18T21:01:02Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Gore didn’t just think this - he knew he had to distance himself from Clinton. But I think he could easily have done this regardless of who his running mate was. He needed to distance himself from Clinton on a personal level, I agree, but he ended up distancing himself from their political accomplishments as well, which only hurt him. Granted, it was a complex situation and it’s easy to manage his campaign from eight years in the future, but he ended up picking Lieberman and pushing too hard on that angle. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/58 "2008-11-18T21:02:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It’s no more apples-and-oranges than your response was to **Guin** ’s comment. Nope. I said Gore chose Lieberman because he made quite a few mistakes in the campaign, this among them. Now, how this relates to the decisions of an entire political party, I really don’t know. Hence my comment to you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/59 "2008-11-18T21:06:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He needed to distance himself from Clinton on a personal level, I agree, but he ended up distancing himself from their political accomplishments as well, which only hurt him. Granted, it was a complex situation and it’s easy to manage his campaign from eight years in the future, but he ended up picking Lieberman and pushing too hard on that angle. Agree totally. And that’s why I think relying on Tipper to drive home the fact that there would have been no drama with him would have been the way to go. I don’t agree with everything Clinton did in office, obviously, but I can’t deny how popular it was at the time. Gore absolutely should have run on that record but should have driven home that he was a more honest and chaste administrator of Clintonism than Clinton. Instead he tried reinventing himself as a faux-populist, which didn’t wear well. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306/60 "2008-11-18T21:16:55Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Nope. I said Gore chose Lieberman because he made quite a few mistakes in the campaign, this among them. You went for a general slam of Gore’s entire campaign, rather than giving a single particular reason why Gore might’ve chosen Lieberman. That’s a pretty hefty jump. So it’s funny that you should turn around and say that going from a blanket slam at one Presidential candidate’s entire campaign, to a slam at the other party for choosing _their_ Presidential candidate, is too big a reach. Suffice it to say, shitnozzle, that your best case is that there’s some pedantic, trivial distinction that makes your comparison slightly less of a reach than mine. Feel free to argue that point if it gives you pleasure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-job-senate-democrats/473306.md?page=4)