# Good Lord, it \[Dune\] was even worse than I remembered **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592 "2009-08-16T01:52:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/21 "2009-08-16T15:49:49Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Dune is a masterpiece of tone and atmosphere. I can’t think of a single movie ever made that so thoroughly transports you to a world so utterly different from your own. > > My theory is that this is ultimately what Lynch focused on: that he probably realized early on that the book was, indeed, unfilmable, so he threw his hands up at the story and instead created what is essentially a 137-minute painting/sculpture/unique hybrid medium. > > This paper’s reviewer at the time, Dave Kehr (now wit the New York Times) [wrote](http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/dune/Film?oid=1064006): I’ll go with you on this to a point. Many moons ago when I saw the movie in theatres it was a disjointed mess and I was pretty disappointed because I was expecting an interesting sci-fi movie, not a visual tone poem. It was amusing later that year when Playboy’s film year in review chose “Greatest cinematic criminal” as “Everyone involved in the making of Dune”. In hindsight, it was pretty well nigh unfilmable as a single movie, but the images do stay with you even after 25 years. I’m not sure whether this (in and of itself) is enough to rescue it as a work of cinematic art as some parts of it (esp some of the acting) was almost Ed Wood level bad. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/22 "2009-08-16T17:48:14Z")
EddyTeddyFreddy. 1. I really don’t know who they credited with the film back then. It was before I had a VCR. It looks like what you’re talking about is the same director, but different names on the release. When I saw it years later there were additions to the film that had been missing the first time. I do know they announced it was edited for television to fit it in the time slot allotted. 2. Yes ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/23 "2009-08-16T19:22:20Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > **Busy Scissors** , what I meant by “dumbing down” is that things like the Bene Gesserit training, the Spice, the arduous transformation of Paul into Muad’Dib, the need for constant vigilance against ever-present, lethal, cunning danger – so much was sketched in or glanced over and never fleshed out. As I said before, the heart of the book to me is Paul’s growth into the man who took and survived the Water of Life, and entwined with that story the winning of the Fremen to his leadership, the transformation of them from a complex culture of desert survivors into that plus Empire-smashing shock troops. Instead, what we got was more akin to space opera, with the focus on the OMG wow! adventure parts, overlaid with New Agey “That’s heavy, man” simplistic mystic mumblings. > > Granted, space opera adventure translates better to film than internal transformations. In a visual medium, it simply works better. I understand why those of you who liked the movie seem to be focussing on the mood and visual aspects. Those, I will agree, were at times remarkable. They just weren’t enough, nearly enough to get me over the mountain of failures in so many other aspects of the movie. You’re right that the water of life theme got compressed almost to nothing-ness in the film - I think to about 3 seconds. Another casualty was the Feyd character, and I’m not just talking about Sting’s portrayal of him. A young Lawrence Olivier couldn’t have done anything with the character as written - I was clueless as to his relevance on watching the film, he seemed just like another Harkonnen thug. His role as the possible Kwizats Hadderach seemed completely submerged. [QUOTE=astro] In hindsight, it was pretty well nigh unfilmable as a single movie, but the images do stay with you even after 25 years. I’m not sure whether this (in and of itself) is enough to rescue it as a work of cinematic art as some parts of it (esp some of the acting) was almost Ed Wood level bad. [/QUOTE] I thought the acting was pretty solid tbh, as an ensemble piece. Some poor turns - Jurgen Prochnow and Everett McGill were a bit wooden. Kyle Maclachlan though, was outstanding IMO. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/24 "2009-08-16T19:30:11Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > You’re right that the water of life theme got compressed almost to nothing-ness in the film - I think to about 3 seconds. > > Another casualty was the Feyd character, and I’m not just talking about Sting’s portrayal of him. A young Lawrence Olivier couldn’t have done anything with the character as written - I was clueless as to his relevance on watching the film, he seemed just like another Harkonnen thug. His role as the possible Kwizats Hadderach seemed completely submerged. > > I thought the acting was pretty solid tbh, as an ensemble piece. Some poor turns - Jurgen Prochnow and Everett McGill were a bit wooden. Kyle Maclachlan though, was outstanding IMO. I have to disagree, possibly he had an unplayable role, or the scripting was poor, or whatever, but Kyle MacLachlan’s portrayal of Paul Atreides did not do much for me with respect to bringing the character to life. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/25 "2009-08-16T19:30:46Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > 1. I really don’t know who they credited with the film back then. It was before I had a VCR. It looks like what you’re talking about is the same director, but different names on the release. “Alan Smithee” was a pseudonym used by directors who did not want their names associated with a film they felt did not reflect their artistic vision. In order to promote and preserve the status of directors as the primary “authors” of films, the DGA (the professional film directors’ union) did not normally allow directors to go uncredited or use pseudonyms of their choice. They strictly regulated the use of the “Alan Smithee” credit, which served as sort of an alarm signal to insiders without drawing undue attention to itself among the general public. Of course, these days everyone’s an insider, and Smithee is no longer as useful as he was. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/26 "2009-08-16T19:37:41Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Another casualty was the Feyd character, and I’m not just talking about Sting’s portrayal of him. A young Lawrence Olivier couldn’t have done anything with the character as written - I was clueless as to his relevance on watching the film, he seemed just like another Harkonnen thug. His role as the possible Kwizats Hadderach seemed completely submerged. :smack: Yanno, I’d completely forgotten that about Feyd; it’s been a couple of decades since I last read _Dune_. Or was he the one that a daughter of Leto and Jessica was supposed to marry to produce a child who would be the Kwisatz Hadderach? There was a brief mention of that at the beginning of the film when Jessica’s being reamed by the Mother Superior for having a son rather than a daughter, then that too evaporated. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/27 "2009-08-16T19:43:41Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I have to disagree, possibly he had an unplayable role, or the scripting was poor, or whatever, but Kyle MacLachlan’s portrayal of Paul Atreides did not do much for me with respect to bringing the character to life. Same here; I thought he brought very little life to the character. On the other hand, he did look bitchin’ in his House Atreides uniform. Speaking of which, did anyone else think there was a helluva fin de siecle Prussian vibe to the Atreides household? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/28 "2009-08-16T19:46:24Z")
Is there anyone else who can’t see the words “kwisatz haderach” without wanting to add “Give the dog a bone”? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/29 "2009-08-16T19:50:14Z")
Damn you! ---
**Author:** ![Jerseyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/30 "2009-08-16T19:54:29Z")
I think they filmed the wrong novel. Paul’s fall from power is more filmic than his rise involving so much cultural tension. Presenting him as the Messiah whose mission gradually gets away from him and who comes to realise the paradox that the best Messiah is a dead Messiah or else even despite himself he comes to sap others of their initiative (a literal version of “If you meet the Buddha on the Way, kill him”) has more ‘going on’ and more personal interaction. In that respect it would conform to the classic definition of Tragedy: _Fall of a great man_. But cinema does not like tragedy, it likes to end on an upbeat, not with a Messiah sacrificing himself to free his followers from their own awe of him (an awe he has done everything to encourage, it is true). I wish Frank Herbert had left it at the Trilogy. The next three and the recycling characters just become ‘silly’ and confusing after a while. The same is true of Asimov’s ‘Galactic Empire’ novels, perhaps worse since they are bound to such a dated original trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/31 "2009-08-16T20:05:55Z")
I agree on ending it at the trilogy. The later books just went way too far down a rabbit hole of crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/32 "2009-08-16T20:22:52Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > This is one of the best example of the damage expectations can do to an artistic experience. If you let it be what it is, rather than what you want it to be, on its own merits it’s an amazing work. I saw the movie before I read the book. After that, it was a full decade before I was even willing to crack the cover. Thankfully I did, and was able to find out what I had been missing. Taken “for what it is,” Lynch’s Dune is a steaming shitpile. Toto. Sting. Weirding Module. Fail. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/33 "2009-08-16T21:46:32Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > From IMDB: > > > [@](#): > > > > David Lynch has said he considers this film the only real failure of his career. To this day, he refuses to talk about the production in great detail, and has refused numerous offers to work on a special edition DVD. Lynch claims revisiting the film would be too painful an experience to endure. I know, right? Imagine the sublimity that might have resulted if he hadn’t had to fight tooth and nail for everything he DID accomplish? Where the film fails, I think, is where the studio’s attempts at conventionality intrude upon Lynch’s hermetic universe. It’s the chimera that doesn’t work; if it had been whole hog one way or the other it could only have been better for it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/34 "2009-08-17T02:32:21Z")
I first saw this movie when I was 8 years old and really couldn’t follow it. I saw it again as a teenager and didn’t have a hard time figuring it out what was going on. Plus, the soundtrack was awesome. I think Dune is a pretty good movie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/35 "2009-08-17T04:32:09Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’m in 100% agreement with **Lissener.** Aesthetically the movie is absolutely amazing. Likewise. Every scene has an incredible atmosphere, and it always feels like something really interesting is going on, but it’s never quite clear what. Then you have all these voice overs making foreboding comments whose context is never made entirely clear. It feels like there’s huge gaps between everything that happens. It’s like a two hour trailer for the most kick-ass 16 hour sci-fi movie ever made. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/36 "2009-08-17T06:03:04Z")
I’ve never read the book. I saw the movie when it first came out (I was in elementary school) and loved it and had no trouble whatsoever understanding it. They may have left out tons of background material from the book, but nothing that they left out is essential to understanding the plot as it exist on screen, and the plot in the film is self consistent and makes sense. I recently rewatched it on cable just this week and found it almost as good despite the small screen and dated effects. I suspect that most people who don’t like it are disappointed in it as an adaption and not as much on it’s own merits. I don’t get people who thought it was confusing or non sensical - I understood it fine as a child and without having read the book for background. And it certainly makes a hell of a whole lot more sense than his other movies 😃 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/37 "2009-08-17T06:24:54Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I’ve never read the book. I saw the movie when it first came out (I was in elementary school) and loved it and had no trouble whatsoever understanding it. They may have left out tons of background material from the book, but nothing that they left out is essential to understanding the plot as it exist on screen, and the plot in the film is self consistent and makes sense. I recently rewatched it on cable just this week and found it almost as good despite the small screen and dated effects. > > I suspect that most people who don’t like it are disappointed in it as an adaption and not as much on it’s own merits. I don’t get people who thought it was confusing or non sensical - I understood it fine as a child and without having read the book for background. And it certainly makes a hell of a whole lot more sense than his other movies 😃 Agree to a point. I agree that it makes far more sense as movie if you had NOT read the book. The book has a very different structure, and the movie and it are on entirely different wavelengths and are virtually telling different stories. \*\*It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Safu that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."\*\* ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/38 "2009-08-17T09:45:04Z")
Personally, I think the aesthetics suck. And that’s not in comparison with the book, just as-is. I’m heartily sick of grimy world-encomapassing cities like Geidi Prime, unsubtle OTT villains like the Baron, and mindless unquestioning fanatics like the Fremen are depicted. That and the choice of some sort of neo-Baroque as the design aesthetic for machines, women’s clothing and furnishings. I thought it passé when the movie first came out, and even more so now. “Steampunk”, my ass. I liked the actual sandworms, the sandcrawler design, and the stillsuit’s design, but that wasn’t enough to lift it past McClachlan’s shitty acting as Paul - all clench-jawed eanestness, no nuance. That, the ridiculous Mentat look, heartplugs, midgets, weird bug-juice, metal teethed witches… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/39 "2009-08-17T10:07:36Z")
Hideous, hideous, hideous movie (that was fairly atmospheric, still beaten by Dark City which has atmosphere _and_ plot, but i digress…). There’s a point where directors/studios/whoever should back the fuck off when they realize that they can’t make a movie that’s even remotely similar to a book. The SciFi miniseries, actually, came pretty close. And movies, when made with real faith for the creative spirit and integrity of the book they’re using as source material, can be pretty damn awesome\*. Egotistical jackasses take a book, like, say … (just as a total hypothetical… ahem) a classic of military adventure with the author seriously suggesting that military service was noble, and then turn it into a satire of fascism. There’s a certain point, and let’s call it the Farship Bloopers Point, where a director should be less of a dick and simply get an all new script. Or, fuck, just do what Twain’s “mature” artists do and steal a lot change the title. (Mr. Jordan, please meet Mr. Herbert, I’m sure you’re familiar with his work). \*Faults and all, the LotR trilogy was pretty well done. And Fight Club was probably the only movie I’ve ever seen that was pretty much faithful to the core of the source material and actually _managed to significantly improve on a decent book_. “Heh. Flashback humor.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592/40 "2009-08-17T10:56:01Z")
Just wanted to state for the record that Kyle MacLachlan is quite possibly the worst, most wooden, least talented actor to be on screen since Robert Evans (remember The Sun Also Rises? What a disaster!) Also, I agree with **Mr. Dibble** (and others) that the look of the film is crap. Everything about the movie is crap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-lord-it-dune-was-even-worse-than-i-remembered/506592.md?page=3)