# “Good morning, guys” — is using ‘guys’ appropriate? Because y’all are female and male. What say we? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 16, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148 "2021-04-16T14:11:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/61 "2021-04-19T17:09:35Z")
good day, humans. i read guys as gender neutral. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/62 "2021-04-19T17:55:06Z")
Guys is very context and nonverbals dependent. If someone standing in front of a group that is well mixed – not heavily weighted toward one gender, and they say, “Hi guys.” I think it will be taken by most people as gender neutral. But it can very clearly and obviously be gendered in slightly different circumstances. In the context of discussing something, if the speaker says, “I’d like to hear from the guys.”. That is clearly a gendered reference. If the statement is, “I’d like to hear what you guys think,” it might be gendered or not, depending on whether the word “guys” is emphasized or not, and perhaps whether the content is gendered, and whether non-males have been speaking. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/63 "2021-04-19T19:15:34Z")
Sidetrack, but as for complete gender neutrality, do you know any _women_ named “Guy”? Guia, Guida, etc. may be real Italian names, but do any of them go by “Guy”? ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/64 "2021-04-19T19:27:43Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > “What’s up, motherfuckers?” I would love to work there. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/65 "2021-04-19T19:28:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Still, it’s rather surprising to me that, for a lot of you, “guys” is still gendered. Maybe, despite being 36, I’m still “officially” young as far as this usage goes. I’m 69, and “guys” has pretty much always been ungendered for me. But I grew up in SoCal, and we tend to be a less formal than other parts of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/66 "2021-04-19T20:22:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Still, it’s rather surprising to me that, for a lot of you, “guys” is still gendered. I’m close to 60 and I think of and use “guys” _mostly_ in a gender neutral fashion depending on the context. But it is slightly off putting that all of the terms that have migrated from gender specific to gender neutral are originally masculine. Can anyone point to a feminine term that is now gender neutral? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/67 "2021-04-19T20:31:27Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But it is slightly off putting that all of the terms that have migrated from gender specific to gender neutral are originally masculine. Can anyone point to a feminine term that is now gender neutral? The perfectly horrible example that comes to mind is ‘bitches.’ ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/68 "2021-04-19T20:41:40Z")
Nah, that’s not gender neutral. It can be used against more than one gender, but it’s a different insult when used against men than when used against women. The insult for men is that they are being called women. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/69 "2021-04-19T20:47:41Z")
It really is changing in the vernacular: > **[Urban Dictionary: bitch](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bitch)** > > one of the most versatile words in the english language; it is used to express a multitude of emotions; anger, anticipation, despair, endearment, envy, excitement, fear, horror, joy, shock, surprise, warning; all achieved by one's enunciation and... ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/70 "2021-04-19T20:48:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > but high level management addressing a body of employees not so closely associated would be best to avoid informality altogether. Most of us don’t really live in a formal work culture any more. I mean, we call everyone by their given names. I still feel weird about addressing someone significiantly senior or older than me without “Mr.” or “Ms.” but it’s not socially acceptable to be so formal. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/71 "2021-04-19T20:50:21Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > if the speaker says, “I’d like to hear from the guys.”. That is clearly a gendered reference. I would also be very surprised to hear someone say something like that at work, unless the topic was specifically centered on gender issues. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/72 "2021-04-19T20:51:18Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I’m 69, and “guys” has pretty much always been ungendered for me. But I grew up in SoCal, and we tend to be a less formal than other parts of the country. As I said above, I’m in my 50s and “guys” has always been ungendered for me. And I grew up in the Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/73 "2021-04-19T20:52:37Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m close to 60 and I think of and use “guys” _mostly_ in a gender neutral fashion depending on the context. But it is slightly off putting that all of the terms that have migrated from gender specific to gender neutral are originally masculine. Can anyone point to a feminine term that is now gender neutral? I can’t think of one, but “girl” originally was a non-gendered term. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/74 "2021-04-19T20:56:59Z")
Sure, but the point is that the term can be obviously and clearly gendered depending on context, and can be ambiguous. I don’t think it’s accurate for anyone to say that it’s gender neutral across the board, unless they are nonnative speakers or otherwise for some reason are ignorant of some of the term’s meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/75 "2021-04-19T21:01:05Z")
It can have gendered or non-gendered meanings, but for native/fluent speakers I would say it’s very unlikely to be ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/76 "2021-04-20T15:12:02Z")
So most here, like me, consider it to be okay to address a group of men and women as you guys. Cool. I asked @ **Daughter\_of\_Bullitt** , in her mid-30s now, since she is in the HR field and recently completed a Masters degree. Her reply: > I’ve been talking with some friends and other professionals about this lately as well, and it’s getting more complicated especially because it’s not just about being inclusive for women, but also for trans or non-binary individuals as well, and we don’t always know when we are being inclusive or exclusive. For instance, you couldn’t necessarily assume you are just sitting with a group of only women simply by the way they all “look” or based on their names. > > I agree in that I don’t think “guys” is considered gender neutral anymore. I haven’t heard much of folks using “people”, though potentially in some contexts it would be more fitting than others; it sounds fairly on the formal side? Almost maybe a little impersonal? In my bigger communications I’ll usually say “everyone”/“all”. Or casually, “y’all” and “folks” have been my usual go-to’s. Sometimes you could even say “group” or “team”, depending on the context. > > I’m in the middle of taking a diversity, equity, and inclusion online certification course. If they provide additional suggestions, I’ll let you know! Hmmm, interesting… ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/77 "2021-04-20T15:14:20Z")
Thanks to you and your daughter for that. You guys rock 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/78 "2021-04-20T15:15:43Z")
Whenever I hear someone address a group as “people,” I always flashback to that old TV show “Square Pegs” – Jami Gertz. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/79 "2021-04-20T15:58:27Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I agree in that I don’t think “guys” is considered gender neutral anymore. So how did this change? How does gender neutral change to gender specific over time? In this thread there are indications that ‘guys’ wasn’t universally considered gender neutral in the past so the change may only be a slight shift over the line. And perhaps it was regional usage or different sub-cultures. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148/80 "2021-04-20T20:56:46Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Whenever I hear someone address a group as “people,” I always flashback to that old TV show “Square Pegs” – Jami Gertz. I always think of _Full House_. Unless I’m conflating it with something else, as I recall “Hi, people!”/“Bye, people!” was one of Michelle Tanner’s many catchphrases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-morning-guys-is-using-guys-appropriate-because-y-all-are-female-and-male-what-say-we/940148.md?page=5)