# Good natured gay jokes are holding back acceptance of gays as equals **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 18, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682 "2011-12-18T22:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/61 "2011-12-20T00:24:17Z")
It’s fine - I get you weren’t trying to make an unfavourable comparison. Apologies if I seemed like I was outraging for the sake of it 🙂 I suppose we just differ in our experiences - I don’t think it would be particularly weird in the set up you describe for a man/woman to chip in to a discussion that is dominated by the other sex. Maybe it’s our different locations, or maybe we just see it differently. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/62 "2011-12-20T00:25:34Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Do they “agree” to hug you or simply fail to physically reject the hug? > > My point is, you’ve posted on three separate occasions on your cluelessness about other men’s personal space - have you considered the possibility that you’re “that guy”? Don’t tell me what I do. ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/63 "2011-12-20T00:41:52Z")
I don’t think that any jokes intended to make fun of a person’s sexuality are really good-natured. It’s one of those things like height, weight, physical disability, etc. that people can only make fun of in themselves. I’m so sorry you’re still experiencing this. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/64 "2011-12-20T00:52:30Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Yes they are the same thing. If you don’t want to hear what guys I find hot, then keep your mouth shut about women you find hot. No, they are not the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with finding men attractive, but when a group of guys are talking about women they find attractive, they are not talking about people they find attractive. They are talking about women they find attractive. Basically if you have Guys 1-4, with #4 being gay: Guy 1: Selma Hayek is hot! Guys 2-3 _Think of Selma Hayek naked_ Guy 4 _Thinks about work_ Guy 2: Yeah Selma Hayek is hot, but what about Angelina Jollie Guys 1+3 _Think of Angelina Jollie naked_ Guy 4 _Hmm this is boring_ Guy 4: But what about that Johnny Depp! Guys 1-3 _Think about ordering food_ If you don’t find women attractive you can’t be part of that conversation. It’s about shared values and good natured arguing, not informing your friends what type of people you find attractive. It’s no different than talking about sports, baking, gardening, or whatever. If you have no interest in the subject, then you can’t really participate in it. Changing it to a subject that the other participants have no interest in (hot men) isn’t how conversations are supposed to go. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/65 "2011-12-20T00:58:20Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you have no interest in the subject, then you can’t really participate in it. Changing it to a subject that the other participants have no interest in (hot men) isn’t how conversations are supposed to go. Well, we were having a conversation about how people who aren’t you feel about things, so you can’t really express an opinion because talking about how you feel about things is changing it to a subject that the other participants have no interest in. Or, put more plainly since you might not catch the point of that comment, you are just redefining a “conversation” narrowly enough to keep people out, _which is exactly what the OP and IS were talking about_. So you’re pretty much proving their point for them. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/66 "2011-12-20T01:00:42Z")
**treis-** If you know someone is unable to participate in a conversation, then having it in front of them is just _beyond_ rude. That’s taking at face value your explanation, which I frankly don’t. But even if it were so, you are still in the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/67 "2011-12-20T01:22:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > No, they are not the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with finding men attractive, but when a group of guys are talking about women they find attractive, they are not talking about people they find attractive. They are talking about women they find attractive. > > If you don’t find women attractive you can’t be part of that conversation. It’s about shared values and good natured arguing, not informing your friends what type of people you find attractive. It’s no different than talking about sports, baking, gardening, or whatever. If you have no interest in the subject, then you can’t really participate in it. Changing it to a subject that the other participants have no interest in (hot men) isn’t how conversations are supposed to go. Then try not having a conversation like that around and with people that you know don’t share your value or about topics that you know they have no interest in. It’s especially ridiculous when it’s two guys talking. Straight guy : Wow, that girl over there is hot and has great tits. Gay gay : And the guy she’s with has a great butt! Straight guy : Eww, I don’t want to hear about that! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/68 "2011-12-20T01:29:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Changing it to a subject that the other participants have no interest in (hot men) isn’t how conversations are supposed to go. So why is it assy for me to talk about something that interests me but not assy for them to talk about something that doesn’t interest me? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/69 "2011-12-20T02:02:14Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > **treis-** If you know someone is unable to participate in a conversation, then having it in front of them is just _beyond_ rude. That’s a ridiculous standard. Not everyone in every group shares every interest. At times the conversation will wander onto a subject you don’t have interest in. At that point you either wander away to find another group to talk to, or twiddle your thumbs until something interesting comes up. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/70 "2011-12-20T02:05:04Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Then try not having a conversation like that around and with people that you know don’t share your value or about topics that you know they have no interest in. > > It’s especially ridiculous when it’s two guys talking. > > Straight guy : Wow, that girl over there is hot and has great tits. > Gay gay : And the guy she’s with has a great butt! > Straight guy : Eww, I don’t want to hear about that! Gay gay misses the point of the first statement. The first statement is essentially “look at that women, evaluate her physical appearance, and report back”. Gay gay misses that meaning, and instead comes back with “look at that guy, evaluate his physical appearance, and report back”. Which is precisely what straight guy does. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/71 "2011-12-20T02:09:36Z")
In the hypothetical exchange that Antinor posted, the straight guy did as good a job of reporting back on the hot guy as the gay guy did on the hot woman. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/72 "2011-12-20T02:10:50Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Gay gay misses the point of the first statement. The first statement is essentially “look at that women, evaluate her physical appearance, and report back”. Gay gay misses that meaning, and instead comes back with “look at that guy, evaluate his physical appearance, and report back”. Which is precisely what straight guy does. How is “Eww, I don’t want to hear about that” an evaluation of someone’s physical appearance? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/73 "2011-12-20T02:11:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Gay gay misses the point of the first statement. The first statement is essentially “look at that women, evaluate her physical appearance, and report back”. Gay gay misses that meaning, and instead comes back with “look at that guy, evaluate his physical appearance, and report back”. Which is precisely what straight guy does. I see you’re never going to understand. I’m finished with this. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/74 "2011-12-20T02:16:12Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Gay gay misses the point of the first statement. The first statement is essentially “look at that women, evaluate her physical appearance, and report back”. Gay gay misses that meaning, and instead comes back with “look at that guy, evaluate his physical appearance, and report back”. Which is precisely what straight guy does. “Ew, I don’t want to hear that!” is a response to “Check out that guy’s ass.” Well guess what? “Check out that guy’s ass” is a response to “Check out that chick’s tits.” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/75 "2011-12-20T02:17:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How is “Eww, I don’t want to hear about that” an evaluation of someone’s physical appearance? I’m guessing he’d read it as an oblique way of saying “I don’t find this person hot.” ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/76 "2011-12-20T02:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=miss elizabeth] treis- If you know someone is unable to participate in a conversation, then having it in front of them is just beyond rude. [/QUOTE] I agree with this completely concerning this subject. > [@treis](#): > > That’s a ridiculous standard. Not everyone in every group shares every interest. At times the conversation will wander onto a subject you don’t have interest in. At that point you either wander away to find another group to talk to, or twiddle your thumbs until something interesting comes up. Yeah fuck that. Don’t want my opinion on sexual matters don’t have the conversation with or in front of me. If you want to express how rude you are and ask what my opinion on so and so(female) I’m absolutely going to counter your rudeness by bring my sexual interests into the conversation. I tend to make sure that person understands their error. ‘Well she’s not my type but if you lost a few pounds I’d tap your ass anytime baby.’ You go to the corner and twiddle your thumbs for a bit asshole. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/77 "2011-12-20T03:17:25Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How is “Eww, I don’t want to hear about that” an evaluation of someone’s physical appearance? How is “the idea of having sexual relations with that person physically disgusts me” not a critique of their physical appearance. I’m not saying it’s a nice or good answer, but it at least is responding to the initial statement. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/78 "2011-12-20T03:24:58Z")
> [@treis](#): > > How is “the idea of having sexual relations with that person physically disgusts me” not a critique of their physical appearance. I’m not saying it’s a nice or good answer, but it at least is responding to the initial statement. “I don’t want to hear about that” isn’t saying “I don’t want to have sex with men.” It’s saying “hearing that you find a man attractive is gross.” And if that doesn’t perfectly encapsulate exactly what the OP is talking about, I don’t know what does. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/79 "2011-12-20T03:32:15Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > But you’re all too eager to paint those vivid word pictures–rather than just say you don’t care for certain images. Images that are \*\*not \*\*really thrust into your face, unless you look at porn indiscriminately. > > Images that must get a rise out of you… Not sure where you’re going here. I’m not terribly discriminate of my porn surfing. Go to any site like xhamster or something and you’ll inevitably see gay mixed in with straight, particularly if you search for something like Gym or blowjob. If I stumble on gay porn I’m not repulsed immediately. If its cock in butt though I am. In fact on the opening screen for xhamster the other day there was a female butthole that looked like her guts were literally falling out of her asshole. That was also repulsive. ETA: this whole line of discussion doesn’t really fit here actually. Explicit porn descriptions were probably not required. You’re right. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/80 "2011-12-20T03:44:33Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I agree with this completely concerning this subject. > > Yeah fuck that. Don’t want my opinion on sexual matters don’t have the conversation with or in front of me. If you want to express how rude you are and ask what my opinion on so and so(female) I’m absolutely going to counter your rudeness by bring my sexual interests into the conversation. I tend to make sure that person understands their error. ‘Well she’s not my type but if you lost a few pounds I’d tap your ass anytime baby.’ You go to the corner and twiddle your thumbs for a bit asshole. I’m sorry it upsets you so much, but the fact remains that attractive women are a different subject than attractive men. If you’re with a bunch of guys discussing the first, jumping in with the second is changing the subject to one they have little to no interest in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682.md?page=5)