# Good natured gay jokes are holding back acceptance of gays as equals **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 18, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682 "2011-12-18T22:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/121 "2011-12-20T22:02:45Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Wow. > > ETA: I suppose I should be happy that you are bigoted towards everyone, not just gay people. At least your prejudice is fair! I don’t have any problem with people being different, but I don’t see the need to pretend they aren’t. Jews can’t participate in a conversation about the awesomeness of bacon, men can’t talk about being pregnant, short people can’t talk about the difficulties of being tall, and gay men can’t talk about the hotness of women. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I know I shouldn’t bother, but… This is where you are losing people. > > Why is it ok for a gay man to have to listen to you prattle on about HAWT women when he isn’t interested, but it’s wrong of him to bring up a topic he cares about that you aren’t interested in? > > Do you see the double standard here? No, because I am talking about group conversations where the majority of participants are heterosexual. If I find myself with a group of homosexuals talking about hot guys, I would follow the advice I gave in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![turtledove\_river](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@turtledove\_river](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtledove_river)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/122 "2011-12-20T22:40:19Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > **Why is it ok for a gay man to have to listen to you prattle on about HAWT women when he isn’t interested, but it’s wrong of him to bring up a topic he cares about that you aren’t interested in?** Why does he have to listen? Who is forcing him? Why would a gay man want to talk about hot guys with straight men? Why would a straight man want to talk about hot women with gay men? I say it’s a matter of knowing how to pick your audience… ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/123 "2011-12-20T23:13:56Z")
> [@treis](#): > > No, because I am talking about group conversations where the majority of participants are heterosexual. If I find myself with a group of homosexuals talking about hot guys, I would follow the advice I gave in this thread. But nobody was talking about group conversations until you brought it up out of thin air. **Illuminatiprimus** was talking about a one-on-one conversation he had with a straight man. **Rigamarole** responded to that anecdote in a way that was sympathetic to the straight man, to which **Antinor01** replied that “maybe the straight guy shouldn’t have brought up his own sex life” if he didn’t want to hear about the gay guy’s. **Inner Stickler** agreed with that assessment: > [@](#): > > Agreed. If you don’t want to know about what I would do to Ryan Gosling, don’t tell me how you’d get freaky with Selma Blair. To which you responded: > [@](#): > > These aren’t the same things. A group of guys talking about hot women isn’t an invitation for you to share your feelings about hot guys, any more than a group discussion about baseball is an invitation to share your thoughts on cricket. Which is a total non sequitur. And if you were to follow your own logic, you’d find that a group of people talking about a one-on-one conversation isn’t an invitation for you to share your feelings about hypothetical group conversations. But people humored you on the change in subject, because most people aren’t so demanding that conversations never veer into new territory, as you are except when you’re changing the subject yourself. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/124 "2011-12-20T23:38:32Z")
Agreed about the lame jokes not helping. Especially when they are lame jokes and not funny except for some sort of ‘taboo’ breaking, which fails if you don’t accept that taboo. Similarly, whenever lesbians come up in conversation or in threads, at least one straight gay will act like lesbians are there to provide straight men with wank-fodder. That is really fucking tiresome. > [@treis](#): > > He can’t participate on equal footing with his friends because his friends like chicks and he doesn’t. That’s absolutely not any different from saying OP can’t participate on equal footing in conversations about sports because he doesn’t like sports. Huh? But he’s still attracted to people. So if the straight men are talking about which women they find hot, he can add which men he finds hot. It’s the same topic, not a change of topic. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/125 "2011-12-20T23:51:44Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Huh? But he’s still attracted to people. So if the straight men are talking about which women they find hot, he can add which men he finds hot. It’s the same topic, not a change of topic. Not in **treis’s** world it would appear, to him/her they appear to be completely unrelated topics, as far apart as needle point and quantum physics. Given the number of people who are finding themselves incredulous at **treis’s** position I suggestion we recognise it for the brick wall that it is and move to something else. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/126 "2011-12-21T00:16:31Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I suggestion we recognise it for the brick wall that it is and move to something else. I think that’s a fair assessment. In fact it probably would have been a fair assessment back when he went to the absurd length of saying that a Jewish person shouldn’t mention childhood Hannukah memories when a group decides to discuss Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/127 "2011-12-21T00:22:09Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Hopefully the topic would be “Let’s discuss holiday memories, and Christmas is going to be mentioned the most only because most of us celebrate it” rather than “Let’s discuss Our Lord’s Birthday and the Sacred Specialness of this Very Important (To Us) Day.” So you’re probably talking about opening presents, maybe the foods you ate as a kid, and the hilarity that ensues when family is together. Everyone can relate to this. You don’t even have to be religious to participate. A Thanksgiving story will work just as well as a Christmas one. > > Likewise, if it’s four guys sitting around and one is gay, and all the other three guys can talk about are the hot girls strolling past or their various sexual conquests, then Gay Guy is going to feel weird if he isn’t expected to participate. Either they need to stop talking about that stuff, or they need to tailor the conversation so that he can chime in. Otherwise, they aren’t being good friends. Or, the gay guy or the Jewish guy or the handicapped guy or the black guy or the red-headed stepchild guy can keep quiet with their unique concerns, let mainstream discussion take place, and stop insisting that “we’re all equal and all norms and values are relative” because they are not. Sorry, but a man making it known to a group of men that he thinks a man passing by has a nice ass is never going to get the same reaction as the same thought about a women…even in the 1% metrosexual, uber-liberal Ivy League elite. That’s just the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/128 "2011-12-21T00:25:36Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever seen an OP’s point demonstrated so masterfully yet so cluelessly. Ever. And I’ve been here a while. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/129 "2011-12-21T00:33:58Z")
Able-bodied heterosexual straight white western European Christian American men are sick of having to constantly walk on eggshells for fear of offending someone or appearing racist. Case in point is that most of you will even view my viewpoint of “enough-is-enough” as racist in and of itself. PC has gone too far. Grow a sac. Thicken that skin. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/130 "2011-12-21T00:38:53Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Sorry, but a man making it known to a group of men that he thinks a man passing by has a nice ass is never going to get the same reaction as the same thought about a women…even in the 1% metrosexual, uber-liberal Ivy League elite. That’s just the way it is. In my group of friends IN MISSISSIPPI it happens all the time. Go ahead and be proud of being a bigot. But, realize, you are one. Not everyone is. Ok, sorry. Now I’ll stop engaging them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/131 "2011-12-21T00:41:30Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Able-bodied heterosexual straight white western European Christian American men are sick of having to constantly walk on eggshells for fear of offending someone or appearing racist. Boo-hoo, whiner. Learn to act like an adult and take responsibility for what you say. Until then you are no different from a whiny child. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/132 "2011-12-21T00:47:16Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Boo-hoo, whiner. > > Learn to act like an adult and take responsibility for what you say. Until then you are no different from a whiny child. Nice ad hominem. And let me know where you think I’m shirking responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/133 "2011-12-21T00:50:42Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Nice ad hominem. > > And let me know where you think I’m shirking responsibility. Were you actually being serious? Poe’s Law comes in all variations it seems. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/134 "2011-12-21T00:56:45Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Nice ad hominem. > > And let me know where you think I’m shirking responsibility. So not only are you a whiny man-child, but you don’t even know what “ad hominem” means. ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/135 "2011-12-21T01:03:18Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > In my group of friends IN MISSISSIPPI it happens all the time. Go ahead and be proud of being a bigot. But, realize, you are one. Not everyone is. > > Ok, sorry. Now I’ll stop engaging them. 🙂 In my experience, that 1% is far more bigoted than most. I never heard a Jewish joke until I met a white guy from Harvard. (It was pretty amazing.) I don’t recall conversations among gays and straights, men and women as ever having to revolve around the preferences of straight men, though. Ever. Maybe I’m too young for that bullshit. If someone who normally voices his opinion on his sexual tastes doesn’t find it easy to participate in a conversation in which a variety of sexual preferences are voiced, I probably wouldn’t want to be his friend. What a bore. Learn to enjoy other points of view! Oh, and incidentally… I went to a small town high school. A couple boys grew up to be drag queens, a few others, doctors, nurses, mechanics, teachers. We are all friends on facebook now and so far, neither the youth pastor nor the hunting guide with the NRA logo for a profile picture have unfriended the drag queen for his daily hottie posts. And of course we ladies are always grateful. 😉 Bigotry of this sort is on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn\_K\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Shawn\_K\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn_K_1)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/136 "2011-12-21T04:14:12Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > You know, perhaps we could use these scenarios as teaching moments. We gay guys know all about hot women. We can even appreciate them . . . esthetically, if not sexually. You don’t have to point out who’s hot and who’s not; we already know. Even making allowances for differing esthetic opinions. > > But what I’ve gotten from straight guys is that a lot of them are totally clueless about which guys are hot. They just don’t get it . . . and obviously there’s probably some homophobia here: They’re afraid that if they acknowledge that a guy’s hot, it means they’re not quite as straight as they’re believed to be. So perhaps it’s our job to get our straight brethren to pay more attention to male hotness. They may even become hotter themselves. Most straight guys have a pretty good idea, even the homophobic ones, they just won’t admit it. Ever notice that they’ll make fun of other guys for being any of: pretty, metro, hollywood and so on? That’s been my experience anyway and I could be very wrong I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/137 "2011-12-21T04:31:48Z")
> [@Shawn\_K\_1](#): > > Most straight guys have a pretty good idea, even the homophobic ones, they just won’t admit it. No, I’m pretty sure your average straight guy literally couldn’t tell you if Brad Pitt or Steve Buscemi was more attractive. At least many of them will say so. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn\_K\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Shawn\_K\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn_K_1)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/138 "2011-12-21T04:36:03Z")
A lot of them will say so that’s for sure. Personally I’d take Brad Pitt over a lot of the women I’ve seen, but sexual interest is a fickle thing, I’m sure there’s people of both sexes that think Steve is uber hot. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/139 "2011-12-21T05:27:57Z")
I’m not saying I wouldn’t bang Steve Buscemi, I just am willing and able to acknowledge that that is a sexual perversion that relatively few people share. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn\_K\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Shawn\_K\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn_K_1)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682/140 "2011-12-21T05:49:21Z")
Fair enough. 🙂 Personally I wish it was possible to have more of these types of conversations in real life, but people that are open minded enough for such discussion don’t always seem to be in much abundance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-natured-gay-jokes-are-holding-back-acceptance-of-gays-as-equals/606682.md?page=8)