# Good News For Illegal Immigration Apologists: more facts to ignore and rationalize **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208 "2007-01-08T21:15:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/141 "2007-01-10T09:07:21Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] No, I do not find that odd because you have to remember that America is a country of immigrants and that the American culture is merely the sum of the other cultures that make it up. Making English the official language is like telling someone that they can paint a picture or make a mosaic but the only blue that they can use is cerulean. Cerulean’s not an ugly color, to be sure. But’s it’d be rather boring if it were the only blue, yanno? [/QUOTE] But no one is proposing banning other languages, we’d still have them. Just that the government not have to provide materials in all the various languages. [QUOTE=Inner Stickler] I agree that our immigration system is broken and it needs to be fixed. It is reprehensible that people wishing to enter the US must wait as long as they are. But dumping busloads of illegals back across the border isn’t going to make the legals’ wait go any faster and it won’t fix the underlying cause which is the economic divide between the US and Mexico. [/QUOTE] Agreed. That is why I tried to craft some steps that would have many/most of them leaving of their own accord. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/142 "2007-01-10T09:30:06Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] As for the latest desultory attempt to saddle illegal immigrants with all the ills of the age, I’ll just go with this, from [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=370619&page=2&pp=50)(Edited for length and clarity): [/QUOTE] Some of your links didn’t work. But I found this point made by Robert Rector (your Link #1), which seems to be on point for this discussion about crime and illegal immigrants. (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > I found very striking in here the statistics that close to **one out of five individuals in federal prisons are illegal aliens** , and as I understand it, **they are not there for immigration-related offenses; they are there for some other type of substantive criminal offense.** That is a very shocking figure. Now, I don’t know whether that figure would correspond to state and local imprisonments, but **let’s say that at the state and local level the figure was not one in five but, say, one in ten** – we don’t know what that number is but to throw a number out to kind of get an assessment of what this might mean. The total cost of crime – economic costs as well as psychological costs – is over $450 billion a year in the United States. **So one-tenth of those costs, minimum you’re talking $40, $50 billion there.** > > Now, again, we only know the federal imprisonment rate, we don’t know the state and local rate, but if there is a disproportionate crime involvement by illegal immigrants and a disproportionate amount of crime being performed, then the social costs of that criminal activity would probably – would almost certainly dwarf the smaller fiscal governmental impacts that are talked about in this report. > > Overall I think this is a very good report. It seems to be quite accurate, and it is a very useful contribution to the public policy discussion. Thanks for the contribution. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/143 "2007-01-10T12:44:22Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Some of your links didn’t work. But I found this point made by Robert Rector (your Link #1), which seems to be on point for this discussion about crime and illegal immigrants. (bolding mine) [/QUOTE] I haven’t read the link yet, but I’ve read other material on that subject. Does the study to which he refers control for other factors, such as poverty or level of education? ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/144 "2007-01-10T15:11:49Z")
By highlighting those sentence fragments he thinks support his thesis, **magellan01** surely feels he has done all the intellectual heavy lifting necessary on the matter. So as the person responsible for carelessly giving him access to a distortable piece of text, I suppose I’ll have to clean up the mess. I have to confess, though, to a morbid curiosity as to what magpie might have come up with as a conclusion from what he had read, had he not been so tired from all the bolding-ing. Anyhow, to put the quote in perspective: Mr. Rector of the very conservative Heritage Foundation was on a panel discussing the CIS findings, whose $20 billion/year figure included costs of law enforcement and incarceration. But the gentleman’s top-of-the-head musings on crime are not part of the CIS study or any other of which I’m aware. And, if you read what he said, either in context or just the parts that made our illustrious OP tingle, it’s clear that his speculations are just daft. First, he admits he has no idea what the actual numbers are (before going on to pull some out of a hat), and then, egregiously, he assumes that each incarcerated person, from the poorest scofflaw to Jeffrey Skilling, bears an equal responsibility for the financial impact of crime in any given year. Folks, _art majors_ don’t abuse statistics that badly. The fact is, there’s no way to assess this unless you know who is committing what crimes, and the only thing we know about that is the [study](http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/faculty/sampson/articles/2006_NYT_OpenDoors.pdf) indicating that Hispanic immigration, legal or not, tends to reduce violent crime. Sharply. Especially in the first generation. But let’s say it’s true that illegal immigrants constitute about a fifth of federal prisoners. Given that federal prisoners constitute less than 8 percent of the whole, the stat isn’t really that overwhelming. Perhaps illegal offenders are more likely to be incarcerated federally: if there’s a tendency for them to be caught at border crossings (regardless of what they’re eventually charged with), they may end up in a federal facility at a higher rate than others convicted of the same crimes. As for the crimes, there’s no information here, really, at all. I’m suspicious of being so often told the crimes were other than illegal entry without being told what they were. After all, criminalizing a group of twelve million people is bound to lead to crimes other than the illicit border crossing itself, but which are part and parcel of a person’s undocumented status: identity fraud, document falsification, etc. And of course everybody gets busted for marijuana possession, if they’re in the right demographic. Nor is it all that damning that a certain group might be arrested and incarcerated at a higher rate than other groups. A lot of groups can claim this honor, the white non-poor being a notable exception. In any event, it’s just as stupid to fight crime by trying to identify and eliminate criminal classes of people as it is to fight disease by attacking segments of the population who are more susceptible to disease. And, since I’m of the opinion that there isn’t much point in trying to influence the OP, because I think he’s here not to discuss but to catch flies, the only other issue I’ll address is how awfully, futilely silly is his cause. We’ve always been a nation of immigrants. English immigrants, other European immigrants, African and Asian immigrants, and now and for the foreseeable future, mostly Latino and other Hispanic immigrants. The only thing that will slow down illegal immigration is to speed up the legal kind; but either way they will continue to arrive and grow and bring their heritage with them, sharing their culture for us to choose from and embracing what they like in ours. They will speak and change our language. They will create, and change our art. They will write and change our literature. They will vote and change our laws, they will purchase and change what’s on the shelves in our stores, they will watch TV and listen to music and change pop culture, they will be educated and change education. And they will marry and integrate and change the complexions of our grandchildren and great-grandchildren. And it will still be America, land of immigrants, land of opportunity, better for each new generation that does not turn its back on the words of Emma Lazarus. And those of us who tried to stop it, who tried to turn people away or at least make them leave their language and culture behind, will not be celebrated by these Americans for their obstinacy. They will not be spoken of, except briefly and with a vague sense of shame, by their descendents. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/145 "2007-01-10T15:48:19Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] But let’s say it’s true that illegal immigrants constitute about a fifth of federal prisoners. [/QUOTE] I was just surprised at the statistic quoted, is all; back in the days when I was working for the Feds (Office of the Immigration Judge, aka Immigration Court), one of my duties was to travel to state and Federal prisons around the Midwest to interpret in deportation proceedings as part of what was then called the Criminal Alien Program, now known as the Institutional Hearing Program. The statistic I heard back then was that 25% of the prison population were aliens of any sort, not aliens who had entered in or remained in the U.S. illegally. That’s a very different kettle of fish. ([This House Judiciary Committee testimony from 199](http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju54765.000/hju54765_0f.htm)7 is a bit dated – and I left the DOJ in 1994, anyway - supports my memory.) The stats on inmates may be different now, but I doubt they are THAT drastically different. And I’d love to see some more detailed stats on the crimes for which aliens are incarcerated, if possible broken down by State vs. Federal offenses, and if possible, compared against stats for U.S. citizens, native-born or otherwise. No time to look right this minute, but who’s game? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/146 "2007-01-10T16:05:23Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Precisely. And why can’t they get a valid driver’s license? Because of draconian and xenophobic immigration laws. I can’t personally blame a man for illegally immigrating when the economic disparity between Mexico and the US is so vast. Hell, the potential benefits would probably be worth any risk, up to and including the possibility of getting your ass shot off while crossing. You gotta feed your family, man. [/QUOTE] Funny, that’s the same argument burglars and dope dealers use. You gotta survive. You gotta feed your family. Agreed. You DON’T gotta break the law to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/147 "2007-01-10T16:17:38Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] Funny, that’s the same argument burglars and dope dealers use. You gotta survive. You gotta feed your family. Agreed. You DON’T gotta break the law to do it. [/QUOTE] Did you know that in many states, people who are legally present in the U.S. cannot obtain a driver’s license, because they are not eligible for Social Security numbers, becasue they are not authorized to work? I had a (British) wife of a multinational executive client pulled over for driving on her U.K. license after 2 years - she had no way of obtaining one, thoguh legally in the U.S. as a dependent of her husband, who was on a work visa. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/148 "2007-01-10T19:22:17Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] What I’ve noticed on the boards is when the subject of illegal immigration comes up, frequently people will delineate between “desirable” illegals from say, Ireland or Canada, and imply racism by referring to the “undesirable” illegals from all points south. The ones from the south are “brown skins” and the ones from the north are not. Never mind what their skin color actually is. It’s just an easy way to imply your opponents are racist. **CBEscapee** for instance, uses it [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6727041&postcount=40) Sometimes it’s confusing to me whether it’s politically correct to consider Latinos “brown skins” or politically _incorrect_ to consider them “brown skins.” In my personal real life experience, I really don’t get the whole “brown skin” thing. It seems like a euphemism for “people I think you don’t want.” [/QUOTE] Since history shows a decidely biased immigration policy against nonwhites, you’ll excuse me for coming to the conclusion that the persecution of certain ethnic immigrant groups is racially based. I mean there were massive deportations not only of Mexican immigrants but also [Mexican-American citizens](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-04-1930s-deportees-cover_x.htm) citizens in the 1930s. If they looked Mexican to the authorities they were sent south. Then you had the illustriously named [Operation Wetback](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback) during the 1950s. This wasn’t a nickname mind you but the official name of the operation. I wonder how an Operation Mick or Operation Squarehead would have been viewed? Would white American have stood for mass deportation of northern Europeans? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/149 "2007-01-10T19:38:15Z")
I’d also like to point out that not all of the 12 million “illegals” - gah, I hate that word, in the US are Latin American. The [GAO](http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0482.pdf) found that as of 2000, 2.3 million people in the US illegally were actually visa overstays, and that that number “omits an unknown number of long-term overstays from Mexico and Canada. It also does not cover short-term overstays who have not established residence here.” From [The Orange County Register:](http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/nationworld/article_1087193.php) > [@](#): > > There’s been a lot of talk lately about people who have illegally crossed the Mexican border to enter the U.S. But they represent only about half of the estimated 12million illegal immigrants in this country. > > An estimated 4million to 6million are so-called “visa overstayers,” foreign nationals who entered the U.S. legally and never went home. > > Non-immigrant visas are issued to foreign nationals who come here for a specific period of time for a wide range of reasons including study, work and tourism. So, not all 12 million people who are here illegally are sneaking across the border. Millions are not necessarily working as gardeners and janitors, and millions are not “brown”. Just so’s you know. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/150 "2007-01-10T21:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] The fact is, there’s no way to assess this unless you know who is committing what crimes, and the only thing we know about that is the [study](http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/faculty/sampson/articles/2006_NYT_OpenDoors.pdf) indicating that Hispanic immigration, legal or not, tends to reduce violent crime. Sharply. Especially in the first generation. [/QUOTE] This is laughable. I show some statistics from \*your \*cite that support my OP (there were many more that supported my larger position against illegal immigration) and you attempt tp pooh-pooh them. Then you claim they that the “only thing we know” about the issue is what one study revealed. You do know that we’ve been discussing ILLEGAL immigrants, don’t you? So, please show where that article states that the findings apply specifically to the conduct of ILLEGAL immigrants. And do you have no reservations about this study? Or, because you think it supports you, you just accept it? Assumming it even says what you think it says. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/151 "2007-01-10T22:01:12Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] You do know that we’ve been discussing ILLEGAL immigrants, don’t you? So, please show where that article states that the findings apply specifically to the conduct of ILLEGAL immigrants. [/QUOTE] Some of us are also talking about LEGAL immigrants. Are you going to address the findings I cited on the Institutional Hearing Program, above, or are you going to ignore them because they poke holes in items you have cited? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/152 "2007-01-11T00:55:17Z")
[QUOTE=Eva Luna] Some of us are also talking about LEGAL immigrants. Are you going to address the findings I cited on the Institutional Hearing Program, above, or are you going to ignore them because they poke holes in items you have cited? [/QUOTE] First, I meant to thank you for the information, then got involved in responding to specific posters. Regarding the findings from the Institutional Hearing Program, I’m not sure it pokes holds into what I’ve been saying. It was a while ago and found 25% to be aliens ( of any sort. I think **TKOS’s** cirte was from 2004. And they might not be that far off. From your experience, what would you estimate—in the study you cited—to be the percent of illegals in the statistic of aliens in prison? PLease calrify if I’m missing something. In looking for more up to date numbers I found [this from CIS](http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704.html) > [@](#): > > Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples: > > • In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens. > > • A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the bloody 18th Street Gang in California is illegal (estimated membership: 20,000); police officers say the proportion is undoubtedly much greater. The gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complicated drug distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and is responsible for an assault or robbery every day in Los Angeles County. The gang has dramatically expanded its numbers over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, a vast proportion > illegal, from Central America and Mexico. > > • The leadership of the Columbia Li’l Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former Assistant U.S. Attorney Luis Li. Frank “Pancho Villa” Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation. > > Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis. The LAPD and the Los Angeles City Attorney recently requested a judicial injunction against drug trafficking in Hollywood. The injunction targets the 18th Street Gang and, as the press release puts it, the “non-gang members” who sell drugs in Hollywood on behalf of the gang. Those “non-gang members” are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled into the country by a trafficking ring organized by 18th Street bigs. The illegal Mexicans pay off their transportation debt to the gang by selling drugs; many soon realize how lucrative that line of work is and stay in the business. > > The immigration status of these non-gang “Hollywood dealers,” as the City Attorney calls them, is universally known among officers and gang prosecutors. But the gang injunction is silent on the matter. And if a Hollywood officer were to arrest an illegal dealer (known on the street as a “border brother”) for his immigration status, or even notify Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE),\* he would be severely disciplined for violation of Special Order 40, the city’s sanctuary policy. [this from the LA Times Opinion Borderline](http://opinion.latimes.com/immigration/2006/05/according_to_th.html) (it served as a good compilation) > [@](#): > > “Fact” 3: 75% of people on the Most Wanted List in Los Angeles are illegal aliens. > LAT citations: None. > Factual basis: We can’t locate such a fact anywhere. The Los Angeles Police Department’s most wanted list contains a number of people with unknown or obscured identities, suggesting that tallying the legal status of everyone on the list would be very difficult if not impossible. Ditto for the FBI’s most-wanted list. > [@](#): > > “Fact” 5: Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally. > LAT citations: May 1, 2005, in an op-ed by Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Col.) — “More than 10% of the inmates in U.S. jails and prisons are illegal aliens, and in California it is more than 20%.” > July 11, 2004 — “Each year, the [Los Angeles] County Jail system processes about 170,000 inmates, and federal officials estimate that a fourth of them are illegal immigrants. But with just a fraction of the foreign-born being questioned, officials say it is impossible to know exactly how many illegal immigrants are in the system and how much the county should receive in federal compensation.” (Similar citations for Riverside County, Apr. 12, 2006; Anaheim city, Nov. 5, 1997, June 27, 1996; Los Angeles County, Jan. 25, 1996, Jan. 15, 1996, July 10, 1995, May 23, 1995; state and county, Nov. 27, 1993, June 1, 1993, Oct. 19, 1992, Oct. 6, 1992, Aug. 4, 1992, Aug. 18, 1991, Dec. 16, 1990, Dec. 4, 1985) > Factual basis: The 25% figure could be approximately correct for state and federal prisons in California, or correct for county, at least as of 2004. But “detention centers” is an extremely broad term that could include all juvenile detention facilities, federal prisons, state prisons, and county jails in California’s 58 counties — making this figure very tough to come by. The San Francisco Chronicle offered a lower figure for state prisons on May 4: “Of the nearly 171,000 inmates crowding state prisons, 22,478, or about 13 percent as of March 31, are undocumented immigrants or are suspected of being undocumented.” The Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group in favor of reducing immigration, offers a lower figure for L.A. County jails: “Deportable aliens comprise 11% of the Los Angeles County jail population costing the county an estimated $75 million a year.” > [@](#): > > “Fact” 7: The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border. > LAT citations: May 15, 2005, in an op-ed by attorney Carol Platt Liebau — “Of the membership of the notorious 18th Street gang, estimated at 20,000, fully 60% are illegal aliens, according to a 1995 report by the state Department of Justice.” (Similar citations: Jan. 19, 2004, March 25, 2000, June 11, 1997, Dec. 17, 1996, Nov. 21, 1996, Nov. 17, 1996) > Factual basis: Heather MacDonald of Manhattan Institute stated that “No one knows for certain the percentage of illegals in gangs, thanks in large part to sanctuary laws themselves.” She does offer some statistics in the City Journal: > > A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. […] > > The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. > > Even if you accept the 18th Street Gang estimates, which would be notoriously difficult to determine with accuracy, that’s just one gang in a city where several prominent gangs — including the Crips, Bloods and Aryan N ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/153 "2007-01-11T01:22:51Z")
From the CIS link: > [@](#): > > Amnesty, however, has been tried — in both an industrial-strength version in 1986, and in more limited doses ever since — and it was a clear failure Why thank you for declaring a failure all the people like me that then became Americans. Speaking of the CIS: [http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=106](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=106) > [@](#): > > Tanton, who has done more to build the anti-immigration movement than any other person, founded the nation’s best-known immigration restriction group — the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) — as well as U.S. English and the highly influential Center for Immigration Studies. Tanton also has helped fund the anti-Hispanic groups American Patrol\* and the California Coalition for Immigration Reform\*. > > His Social Contract Press\*, coordinated by himself, Robert Kyser and Wayne Lutton publishes a number of anti-immigrant tracts, chief among them the racist French novel The Camp of the Saints. > > Tanton and Lutton also are co-authors of The Immigration Invasion, an anti-immigrant scare book published by the American Immigration Control Foundation\*. One typically lurid chapter warns that “criminal activities” by illegal aliens are “escalating” into a “crime wave.” > > In a private 1986 memo leaked to the press, Tanton suggested racial Balkanization was under way, and warned, among other things, that Hispanics were out-breeding whites: “On the demographic point: perhaps this is the first instance in which those with their pants up are going to get caught by those with their pants down!” The memo contained such incendiary language that U.S. English executive director Linda Chavez quit, as did advisory board member Walter Cronkite. [http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=589](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=589) > [@](#): > > Although Dobbs has steered clear of the racist comments that some of his guests have made elsewhere, he has warned of “illegal aliens who not only threaten our economy and security, but also our health and well-being,” according to Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR), a media monitor. In 2003, FAIR added, a reporter on Dobbs’ show grossly mischaracterized a National Academy of Sciences report. The report found that immigrants provided a net gain of $1 billion to $10 billion to the U.S. gross domestic product, but the CNN reporter said the report had found the economic impact of immigrants worked out to a net loss of up to $10 billion. > > Dobbs is revered in anti-immigration quarters and on the far right generally. He is the winner of the 2004 Eugene Katz Award for Excellence in the Coverage of Immigration, given by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS). CIS claims to be a “nonpartisan research institute,” but in fact is a thinly disguised anti-immigration organization. The 2005 Katz Award went to the immigration beat reporter for The Washington Times, a hard-right newspaper based in Washington, D.C. > > In general, Lou Dobbs has declined to report salient negative facts about anti-immigration leaders he approves of, or simply avoided mentioning certain of their views – notably the conspiracy theories propounded by people like Spencer. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/154 "2007-01-11T01:23:58Z")
[QUOTE=CBEscapee] Since history shows a decidely biased immigration policy against nonwhites, you’ll excuse me for coming to the conclusion that the persecution of certain ethnic immigrant groups is racially based. I mean there were massive deportations not only of Mexican immigrants but also [Mexican-American citizens](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-04-1930s-deportees-cover_x.htm) citizens in the 1930s. If they looked Mexican to the authorities they were sent south. Then you had the illustriously named [Operation Wetback](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback) during the 1950s. This wasn’t a nickname mind you but the official name of the operation. I wonder how an Operation Mick or Operation Squarehead would have been viewed? Would white American have stood for mass deportation of northern Europeans? [/QUOTE] There was also a genocide practiced by the Texas Rangers and armed groups of White armed citizens during the early part of the 20th Century against Hispanics in South Texas along with an organized White Business and White Government effort to strip South Texas Hispanics who were non-immigrant US Citizens of their property. There was active public and private discrimination throughout the last century against Texas Hispanics. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/155 "2007-01-11T01:27:29Z")
[QUOTE=CBEscapee] I wonder how an Operation Mick or Operation Squarehead would have been viewed? Would white American have stood for mass deportation of northern Europeans? [/QUOTE] I gotta ask, what’s a “squarehead?” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/156 "2007-01-11T01:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I gotta ask, what’s a “squarehead?” [/QUOTE] According to urban dictionary: > **[Urban Dictionary: squarehead](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squarehead)** > > squarehead: Squarehead is a late 19th century ethnic slur directed at German and Scandinavian immigrants. The phrase is meant quite literally as a... > [@](#): > > Squarehead > > A derogatory nickname for Germans during World War I, when Germany was our enemy. They supposedly had large, square-shaped heads. See kraut. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/157 "2007-01-11T01:30:57Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I was aware that there were pockets of unclean water for drinking in the US, but not that it was “not uncommon.” There are lots of places in the US with too little water-most of them near the Mexican border (not impugning anything, just a fact). I am not sure of your point–is it that since this condition exists inside the US, it’s ok for it to exist in Mexico? The world deserves safe, clean water-seems kind of obvious. I am not sure, but the “noes” is part of l33t speak, I think. It’s supposed to be dismissive of the poster’s position by attempting to characterize their position as immature by replying in an immature manner. Or something like that. [/QUOTE] I’m just saying to get on too fucking high a horse when pointing how bad Mexico is. And I’m not on border. Nor are the towns and private water wells that come to mind when I think about polluted and contaminated water either. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/158 "2007-01-11T01:36:42Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Why thank you for declaring a failure all the people like me that then became Americans. [/QUOTE] Come on, you know that is complete nonsense. The main part of the reason for the Amnesty Program was to get the illegal immigration problem under control. And, yes, it was rightly viewed as a problem. A problem they thought the amnesty program would fix. Part of it, we were told, was to really secure the borders and crack down on people sneaking in and overstaying their visas. Yeah, that worked real well. [QUOTE=GIGObuster] Speaking of the CIS: [/QUOTE] Here we go again. You don’t like the information and you attempt to portray it as some crazed purely partisan position. Newsflash: There are people on the other side of the political spectrum. Just because that is where they reside doesn’t mean there positions or their information is invalid. Really, **Gigo** , this trick is getting old. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/159 "2007-01-11T01:39:53Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] There was also a genocide practiced by the Texas Rangers and armed groups of White armed citizens during the early part of the 20th Century against Hispanics in South Texas along with an organized White Business and White Government effort to strip South Texas Hispanics who were non-immigrant US Citizens of their property. There was active public and private discrimination throughout the last century against Texas Hispanics. [/QUOTE] And a few hundred years ago the Spanish came and killed thousands of Mexicans and imposed rule and their language on them. What does this 50-150 year old history reminder have to do with the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208/160 "2007-01-11T01:56:21Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] And a few hundred years ago the Spanish came and killed thousands of Mexicans and imposed rule and their language on them. What does this 50-150 year old history reminder have to do with the discussion? [/QUOTE] I was pointing out some other widely based ethnic discrimination in addition to another post’s examples that were ongoing in a similar time frame. Ethnic hatred of Hispanics, which you demonstrate all the time regardless of their citizenship status, has been around for a while. You and your ilk are trying to bring it back with lies and factual omissions. You’re just the 21st century equivalent of something that is rotten to its very core. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-illegal-immigration-apologists-more-facts-to-ignore-and-rationalize/387208.md?page=9)