# Good news for the Bush Administration
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 31, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680 "2005-01-31T22:47:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/21 "2005-02-01T00:31:04Z")
We have seen the enemy…
and he is us.
---
### Author:  [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/22 "2005-02-01T00:36:58Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#):
>
> No good. There are as many 21-year-old dumbasses as there are 18-year-old dumbasses.
Yeah, well, can’t argue with that. Perhaps it could be shown that one’s individual state of dumbassedness at least decreases significantly from age 18 to 21, even if one’s relative dumbassedness within their peer group is not improved?
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### Author:  [@ReuvenB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReuvenB)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/23 "2005-02-01T00:45:58Z")
I’m not so worried.
Why?
Because I’m betting at least a quarter, if not half, of the people who responded that it went “too far” were being sarcastic and/or responding that way as a joke.
I’ve done it myself at times.
When presented with a survey or test that is clearly an insult to my intelligence (such as the practice Georgia High School Graduation tests), I’ve purposely written in comments to the test-makers (such as “grammar mistake here!”). My guess is that high school students saw it as a waste of their time, and treated it as such.
I really, really hope I’m right.
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/24 "2005-02-01T00:53:58Z")
> [@XWalrus2](#):
>
> I
> Because I’m betting at least a quarter, if not half, of the people who responded that it went “too far” were being sarcastic and/or responding that way as a joke.
> I’ve done it myself at times.
So _you’re_ the asshole who had us believing Kerry was ahead. 😉
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### Author:  [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/25 "2005-02-01T00:57:29Z")
> [@World Eater](#):
>
> No screw the 21 thing, you should be able to pass a test in order to vote.
>
> /wish I was joking ☹
Err, yeah. That’d be the best way to ensure the tenets of the Constitution remain intact.
I don’t see why people are surprised, and I don’t see why people think it’s exclusive to the young. I’ve read so many things from people, on here and elsewhere, that show they just don’t grok the concept of the separation of church and state, and the three-branch system of government, that make me wonder whether I’m the only person who had to take civics in school.
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### Author:  [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/26 "2005-02-01T00:58:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I thought that they did turn out in higher numbers, and maintained the same proportion of overall voters that they had in the last election. Is this not correct?
You are correct. I meant record _proportion_ (y’know, the whole “Vote or Die” thing, etc.). Apologies, good sir.
Point still stands, though. It’s not that kids are necessarily uninformed, it’s that they don’t care. And that apathy keeps them from the voting booth, and so I sleep easy.
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### Author:  [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/27 "2005-02-01T01:08:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> We have seen the enemy…
I believe there is only one thing left to do: Launch a preemptive strike against highschool students in the name of national security.
What other choice do we have? ☹
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/28 "2005-02-01T01:23:06Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#):
>
> Err, yeah. That’d be the best way to ensure the tenets of the Constitution remain intact.
Sure beats out having ignorant people making decisions about my future.
For example if you answered there was a big 'ol link between SH and OBL (something people still believe), you’re disqulified from voting. Man would that be nice or what?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/29 "2005-02-01T01:25:37Z")
> [@Rooves](#):
>
> I believe there is only one thing left to do: Launch a preemptive strike against highschool students in the name of national security.
>
> What other choice do we have? ☹
Works for me. I teach the little monsters! 😃
I kid!
**XWalrus2** , I hope you are right. I do that to idiotic questionaires, too. But still…what will it take to get them _involved_?
Suggestions, anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
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### Author:  [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/30 "2005-02-01T04:17:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> Wasn’t there a group that went around the downtown area of some major US city(ies) with the text of the Bill of Rights (untitled, but word-perfect) and asked the person-on-the-street their opinion of it? IIRC, most people said it sounded like some Communist manifesto.
During the height of McCarthyism, people were given the text of the Declaration of Independence and asked if they would be willing to sign it. Only 1% agreed to do so. I guess the “all men are created equal” line sounded a bit suspiciious.
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### Author:  [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/31 "2005-02-01T04:47:18Z")
> [@Loopydude](#):
>
> [Putting on my flame-retardant briefs]
>
> Time to raise the voting age to 21?
>
> [keepin’ on my flame-retardant briefs]
I don’t think it would make much of a difference. It’s not like 18-, 19-, and 20-year-olds do all that much voting as it is.
During those ages I only voted once, and that was in the 2000 election.
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### Author:  [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/32 "2005-02-01T04:52:36Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#):
>
> Isn’t that the same age group that was supposed to turn out in record numbers last year? The same group that wound up having one of the LOWEST turnouts in history?
I don’t think so…
> [@](#):
>
> Youth turnout in the 2004 presidential election was up dramatically from 2000. Using exit polls & early vote tallies to estimate youth votes & youth turnout, about 21 million 18-29 year olds voted, an increase of 4.6 million from 2000. Approximately 51-52% of eligible 18-29 year olds voted, compared to 42% in 2000.
>
> Approximately 10.5 million 18-24 year olds voted, an increase of 1.8 million from 2000, raising their estimated turnout from 36% to 42%.
Source: [CIRCLE](http://www.civicyouth.org/quick/youth_voting.htm)
The share of votes cast by youth (youth votes as a proportion of all votes) was about the same as in 2000, though.
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### Author:  [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/33 "2005-02-01T11:27:49Z")
I think what I found more disturbing was that only 51% of students agreed with “newspapers should be allwoed to publish freely without government approval of stories.” Of course, I also find it disturbing that only 80% of teachers and principals agreed.
[the survey](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/photos/N/NYET25301311822.html?SITE=WABEL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
'course, I had to roll my eyes and chuckle at the next item: “Musicians should be allowed to sing songs with lyrics which others may find offensive.”
70% of students agreed, 53% of teachers agreed, and only 43% of principals agreed.
Free speech is great when it’s speech you like, I guess.
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### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/34 "2005-02-01T12:57:54Z")
> [@Loopydude](#):
>
> [Putting on my flame-retardant briefs]
>
> Time to raise the voting age to 21?
>
> [keepin’ on my flame-retardant briefs]
I’d probably go the other way with it. Lower it to 12 or 13 or something, but require to pass a civics test to vote before age 18 (something like a “learner’s permit” for driving). That would involve kids in the process at an earlier age so, hopefully, by the time they’re in the 18-21 demographic they’ve got a handle on it.
If you raise the age to 21 then you reduce the incentive for people under 21 to pay attention to the world around them. As if they need help! Raise it to 30, and you delay the onset of adult thinking even further.
Question: did the draft during Vietnam induce younger people to vote in higher numbers than normal?
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/35 "2005-02-01T13:39:19Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#):
>
> Isn’t that the same age group that was supposed to turn out in record numbers last year? The same group that wound up having one of the LOWEST turnouts in history?
Yes, the voter turnout for 14, 15, 16, and 17 year olds was tied for the lowest in history. It’s a 215 year steak of ZERO.
Silly rabbit.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/36 "2005-02-01T13:58:54Z")
From the OP’s link:
> [@](#):
>
> The study suggests that students embrace First Amendment freedoms if they are taught about them and given a chance to practice them, but schools don’t make the matter a priority.
>
> Students who take part in school media activities, such as a student newspapers or TV production, are much more likely to support expression of unpopular views, for example.
>
> About nine in 10 principals said it is important for all students to learn some journalism skills, but most administrators say a lack of money limits their media offerings.
>
> More than one in five schools offer no student media opportunities; of the high schools that do not offer student newspapers, 40 percent have eliminated them in the last five years.
What brings the importance of these issues home to people is actually experiencing pressure against the exercise of their rights.
Paradoxically, some students today are becoming more informed about civil liberties because of repressive practices on the part of schools (“zero-tolerance” policies, locker searches, banning of certain student clubs, etc.). Post-Columbine hysteria led to students being suspended for having “unusual-colored” hair, making fun of school officials, and many other silly things. IIRC the ACLU is pursuing more “students’ rights” lawsuits than ever before, and has a special [Student Rights webpage](http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/StudentsRightsMain.cfm) on the topic.
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### Author:  [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/37 "2005-02-01T14:23:44Z")
Well decisions like _Hazelwood School Dist. v. Kuhlmeier (1988)_ certainly don’t help build respect for the First Amendement.
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### Author:  [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/38 "2005-02-01T14:25:49Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#):
>
> Ok. Im renting a van and moving to Canada. I’ll have room for 7 Dopers. Who’s coming?
Turn out the lights before you leave and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/39 "2005-02-01T14:34:07Z")
**Clothahump:** _Turn out the lights before you leave_
No need, the darkness is growing rapidly.
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### Author:  [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-news-for-the-bush-administration/287680/40 "2005-02-01T14:35:43Z")
> [@World Eater](#):
>
> Sure beats out having ignorant people making decisions about my future.
So you’re basically calling for a return of the “literacy tests” enacted during the Jim Crow era used to keep African Americans from voting, except you would use them against all “ignorant” people. Heck, why not bring back poll taxes and grandfather clauses, too? :rolleyes:
Hate to break this to you, but everyone of legal age (barring certain restrictions based on criminal acts) has the right to vote. Even people that disagree with you, or that you view as “ignorant”.
And by the way, I’m not defending the ridiculous students mentioned in the OP.
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