# Good quality mysteries that follow "Mystery Rules" rather than "Detective Rules" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [January 28, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963 "2023-01-28T20:55:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/1 "2023-01-28T20:55:10Z")
Monk, Death in Paradise, Ellery Queen, Jonathan Creek, Blacke’s Magic, some episodes of Marple, some episodes of Poirot, follow “mystery rules”. They give the viewer all the information they need to solve the case, and provide it all before the detective solves it. Also they tend to have a point where it’s clear to the viewer that the mystery should be solvable by now and they are now proceeding with the solution. Other dramas follow “detective rules” The detective follows the case information and generally solves it in the last 15 minutes but doesn’t use information that was available to the viewer and often is one of a multitude of ways it could have gone, not solvable at all early. I’m looking for more mystery dramas that strictly follow the “mystery rules”. Anybody got any recommendations? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/2 "2023-01-28T21:09:02Z")
If it helps, I think the usual term for what you’re looking for is “fair play mysteries”. ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/3 "2023-01-28T21:11:40Z")
Does Columbo count? I mean, the viewer certainly gets enough information, and before the detective… ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/4 "2023-01-28T21:15:10Z")
> [@iamatractorboy](#): > > Does Columbo count? I mean, the viewer certainly gets enough information, and before the detective To a degree I’d accept Columbo. In that the mystery isn’t whodunnit it’s howscrewedup and most of the time the viewer is able to solve it before Columbo ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/5 "2023-01-28T21:16:42Z")
Veronica Mars is pretty good about it, I think, although unlike you (the OP) I don’t seek those out. I watch to be entertained, not to try to figure it out before the reveal, and my pet peeve is the deliberate counterintuitive twist near the end — where in order to have the answer be something the audience didn’t anticipate, the solution is contrived to be something technically possible but often in violation of the characters as developed to that point. Author Sue Henry’s mysteries are good about giving you the clues and _not_ throwing unlikely curve balls at you in chapter 38. ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/6 "2023-01-28T21:18:38Z")
That is a good point, I hadn’t thought of it like that when answering (admittedly in a rather tongue in cheek way). I recently watched the whole of the 1970s Columbo run so it was fresh in my mind. But you’re right, when I was watching it I did find myself wondering which screw up would catch the killer out. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/7 "2023-01-28T21:25:53Z")
TVTropes has a whole page on [Fair-Play Whodunnits](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FairPlayWhodunnit) across media types. My favorite one for live action TV is probably _Jonathan Creek_. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/8 "2023-01-29T04:05:16Z")
If _Columbo_ counts, then _Poker Face_ now on Peacock should also count. They both show how the crime is committed at the start of the show, so the mystery is how the clues add up to become convincing evidence. I’m liking _Poker Face_ as much as I liked _Columbo_. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/9 "2023-01-29T04:45:03Z")
I have only seen the first episode so far. It is a fair bit funnier than _Columbo_. I assume that they will continue with the format where the crime occurs on screen and then Charlie’s involvement begins in flashback? Nice touch. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/10 "2023-01-29T06:08:35Z")
I’m currently re-watching Jonathan Creek and really enjoying it the third time around. I just got finished watching Jeremy Brett’s Sherlock Holmes and while that’s the detective show to end all detective shows, the mysteries themselves are pretty weak. Jonathan Creek is fun because of the “locked room” aspect of most of the mysteries. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/11 "2023-01-29T18:18:52Z")
I haven’t seen many but I’m pretty sure _Murder, She Wrote_ qualifies. The team of Levinson and Link created that show along with _Ellery Queen_, _Columbo_, and _Blacke’s Magic_. That was their specialty. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/12 "2023-01-29T18:54:34Z")
If you’re up for farce, you might try _Murderville_. Will Arnett is a homicide detective, and in each episode, he’s matched up with a different guest star as a trainee who accompanies him to talk to the suspects. It’s all improvised, and at the end, the guest is asked to name the culprit. They’ll throw a lot of clues and red herrings at you, and even with the ridiculousness, I think the logic involved in the solution is always sound (but I wasn’t watching with the mindset of looking for flaws). The improv has mixed results, but I think Marshawn Lynch was the best of the guests. ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/13 "2024-07-30T11:53:38Z")
18 months later I’m going to give this a bump. I’m still looking for decent shows in this genre and I figure I may get some people who didn’t see this thread first time round. ---
**Author:** ![Ryz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryz/32/13213_2.png) [@Ryz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryz)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/14 "2024-07-30T12:03:44Z")
I think the BBC series Father Brown might fit what you’re looking for. It’s set in the 1950’s and is based on the short stories by G. K. Chesterton. it first aired on the BBC in 2013. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-quality-mysteries-that-follow-mystery-rules-rather-than-detective-rules/978963/15 "2024-08-02T15:16:47Z")
Harry Kemelma the Rabbi Small mystery series The first book won the 1964 Edgar Allan Poe Award by the Mystery Writers of America. It’s extremely enjoyable. I’ve read the first book at least 7 times in the past 40 years. It’s a short 12 book series. > **[Rabbi Small - Book Series In Order](https://www.bookseriesinorder.com/rabbi-small/)** > > Complete order of Rabbi Small books in Publication Order and Chronological Order.