# Good riddance to bad rubbish: Chuck Colson is dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550 "2012-04-22T02:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/21 "2012-04-22T05:59:06Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Chuck Colson did a great deal of good after he got out of prison. And a great deal of harm before. Plenty of people do good charity work. Colson and his associates are fairly unique in the amount of damage they did to American’s faith in their governing institutions. > [@](#): > > All you idiots who condemn him are despicable morons. You are scum of the earth. You are vile, disgusting slime-ridden, pus-infested pieces of garbage. You are lower than the people who deliberately infect people with AIDS. Are we lower then people that use buglers and thugs to undermine the Democratic process? I’m not celebrating his death or anything, but I can understand why people are pissed. Watergate and the other misdeeds of the Nixon administration were a big deal, enough so that even 40 years later people are justifiably angry. Pointing at the fact that one of the perpetrators did some nice charity work later in life and expecting that to make people forgive him is silly. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/22 "2012-04-22T06:09:06Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > All you idiots who condemn him are despicable morons. You are scum of the earth. You are vile, disgusting slime-ridden, pus-infested pieces of garbage. You are lower than the people who deliberately infect people with AIDS. > > I hope that you have nothing but trouble and bad luck for a very, very long time. Years of suffering would be too good for you. Yeah but how do you really feel? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/23 "2012-04-22T06:13:46Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Turning your life around for close to forty years comes close. Comes close to being repentant? I don’t agree. I think repentance for a crime involves acknowledging that you committed it, acknowledging it was wrong and trying to make amends. Just doing good works in some unrelated facet of your life might be nice for other reasons, but I don’t think it signifies repentance. Instead Colson’s most vocal statements on Watergate after his trial appear to be outrage at the guy that ratted him out. (also “turned his life around” to me suggests not doing what he did before. Which is certainly true in this case, but kind of a silly defence, its not like he was going to have an opportunity to participate in _another_ major gov’t conspiracy, and I imagine Ellsburg’s psychiatrist has invested in some better alarm systems). > [@](#): > > Look, he did some bad things which I will not excuse and he was not a perfect person after he was freed. That would describe so many people, including some that this board would reflexively defend for political reasons. Some people are more imperfect then others. (Aside: I hate when people argue against “the board”. There’s no such beast.) > [@](#): > > Screw all of that. Let him rest in the peace I hope he finds and that none of us deserves. He’s famous for his involvement in Nixon’s smear campaigns and Watergate, so that’s what people are discussing on the occasion of his death. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/24 "2012-04-22T06:14:52Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Are we lower then people that use buglers and thugs to undermine the Democratic process? How can you undermine the democratic process with a bugle? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/25 "2012-04-22T06:22:49Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Chuck Colson did a great deal of good after he got out of prison. > > All you idiots who condemn him are despicable morons. You are scum of the earth. You are vile, disgusting slime-ridden, pus-infested pieces of garbage. You are lower than the people who deliberately infect people with AIDS. > > I hope that you have nothing but trouble and bad luck for a very, very long time. Years of suffering would be too good for you. A fitting tribute. Chuck Colson basically invented our modern, toxic politics-by-invective. Look at your defense of the man. It’s one-sixth building him up (however anemically you can—and who can blame you, there ain’t that much to say in his defense) and five-sixths arrant pissing on anyone caught in the crossfire. Some legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/26 "2012-04-22T06:36:28Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > (also “turned his life around” to me suggests not doing what he did before. Which is certainly true in this case, \ Not really. As I said in the other thread, he was an unscrupulous Republican operative who just went from one set of scummy tactics to another. He was _still_ working in an underhanded, manipulative fashion to promote Republicanism. He didn’t change any more than a serial killer who has switched from a knife to a gun has really changed. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/27 "2012-04-22T06:43:03Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Chuck Colson did a great deal of good after he got out of prison. > > All you idiots who condemn him are despicable morons. You are scum of the earth. You are vile, disgusting slime-ridden, pus-infested pieces of garbage. You are lower than the people who deliberately infect people with AIDS. > > I hope that you have nothing but trouble and bad luck for a very, very long time. Years of suffering would be too good for you. I think people who purposely infect people with AIDS are generally better folk than Republicans. Generally, there are always exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/28 "2012-04-22T06:52:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I think people who purposely infect people with AIDS are generally better folk than Republicans. They pretty much are the same thing. The Republicans have always essentially looked at AIDS as a biological weapon to kill gays and Africans; something to be encouraged, not stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/29 "2012-04-22T06:53:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They pretty much are the same thing. The Republicans have always essentially looked at AIDS as a biological weapon to kill gays and Africans; something to be encouraged, not stopped. I’m loathe to say this, but Bush actually did some good work for AIDS in Africa. Gah, my mouth tastes like ash. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/30 "2012-04-22T06:55:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They pretty much are the same thing. The Republicans have always essentially looked at AIDS as a biological weapon to kill gays and Africans; something to be encouraged, not stopped. You’re a crazy person. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/31 "2012-04-22T09:20:50Z")
I find this thread’s obsession with “repentance” surprisingly Christian. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/32 "2012-04-22T09:40:47Z")
Repentance is meaningless unless the penitent indemnifies themselves. If done after they’ve been caught, it’s just a simple way to restitute their own image. Which is why I find the dichotomy between unrepentant and repentant criminals to be trite, especially when used as a defence of capital punishment. The mens rea when committing the crime would be exactly the same and I’d actually have far more respect for a gradual transformation than an immediate acknowledgement of culpability: if anything, it shows that they knew how despicable their actions were before committing the crime. This guy has about fuck all on Gregg York or Sidney Gottlieb though. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/33 "2012-04-22T09:55:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I find this thread’s obsession with “repentance” surprisingly Christian. I didn’t refer to repentance in a religious sense. Just someone acknowledging their bad acts and trying to lead a better life. There’s a concentration on apology by some that doesn’t impress me. Apologies are easy (or should be), but demonstration of changed ways is more difficult. I’ve heard Colson denounce his own actions and the philosophy behind it, so I give him some credit for that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/34 "2012-04-22T10:10:04Z")
But he \*did \*try to live a better life. Since when are words or thoughts more important that actions? I mean, what would you prefer - a man who says he’s sorry and feels bad about himself, or a man who does neither of these things, but instead acts to make the world a better place? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/35 "2012-04-22T10:12:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But he \*did \*try to live a better life. > > Since when are words or thoughts more important that actions? I mean, what would you prefer - a man who says he’s sorry and feels bad about himself, or a man who does neither of these things, but instead acts to make the world a better place? I’d prefer someone who did both. Colson has satisfied that to some degree. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/36 "2012-04-22T10:15:47Z")
From some of the posts in this thread one would think that Hitler had just popped his clogs. For fuck’s sake, as bad men go this one was about as evil as Mary Poppins. Expend such vituperation on people like this and where do you go for expletives when someone _really_ nasty dies? Turn it down a notch, why dontcha? We’ll still get the point. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/37 "2012-04-22T11:17:08Z")
I’ve found that people who lived through Watergate seem to have an extremely strong emotional investment in anything and anyone involved. Myself, I was born two weeks before he resigned. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/38 "2012-04-22T11:30:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But he \*did \*try to live a better life. > > Since when are words or thoughts more important that actions? I mean, what would you prefer - a man who says he’s sorry and feels bad about himself, or a man who does neither of these things, but instead acts to make the world a better place? Indeed, and this is the attitude Colson explictly embraced: that endlessly rehashing Watergate and going around saying “sorry” all the time would be seen as empty words, and that his job was to show he was sorry through his actions. I’m not a huge fan of everything he’s done post-Watergate but Prison Fellowship has done a hell of a lot of good for a hell of a lot of people – most of whom are the kind of people that most of us don’t give a damn about. In the second half of his life, Colson did an awful lot of really good things; how that balances with some of the shitty things he did in the first half, God only knows. I do feel pretty confident that, all things considered, he was a better man than me. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/39 "2012-04-22T11:45:58Z")
> [@furt](#): > > he was a better man than me. I can believe this. And since I know that Colson was a shittier human being than I can ever hope to be, I also know where you and I stand, **Furt**. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550/40 "2012-04-22T11:48:43Z")
That was uncalled for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish-chuck-colson-is-dead/619550.md?page=3)