# Good Samaritan saves baby - in spite of security guard's warning. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291 "2014-09-23T01:42:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/21 "2014-09-23T17:31:39Z")
Better that than the alternative (ignoring children left in hot cars). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/22 "2014-09-23T17:37:48Z")
Why hasn’t this problem been fixed with technology, at least for new cars? It shouldn’t be that hard to make some device that senses temperature as well as (by weight, sound, body heat, etc.) whether a child is in the car, and sounds an alarm/opens all windows/turns on AC if the temperature inside gets too high. These seem like very minor engineering challenges that wouldn’t cost more than a few hundred dollars per vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/23 "2014-09-23T17:48:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why hasn’t this problem been fixed with technology, at least for new cars? It shouldn’t be that hard to make some device that senses temperature as well as (by weight, sound, body heat, etc.) whether a child is in the car, and sounds an alarm/opens all windows/turns on AC if the temperature inside gets too high. These seem like very minor engineering challenges that wouldn’t cost more than a few hundred dollars per vehicle. There is always a smarter idiot that will figure out a way to defeat any safety measure. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/24 "2014-09-23T17:49:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why hasn’t this problem been fixed with technology, at least for new cars? It shouldn’t be that hard to make some device that senses temperature as well as (by weight, sound, body heat, etc.) whether a child is in the car, and sounds an alarm/opens all windows/turns on AC if the temperature inside gets too high. These seem like very minor engineering challenges that wouldn’t cost more than a few hundred dollars per vehicle. Weight? It annoys me that I get a seat belt warning flashing light if I put a book in the passenger seat. A weight sensor would cause a lot of false alarms. Sound? Sounds get into cars. Not reliable. Body heat? It would have to work on temperature differential, and I don’t see how a device could distinguish between body heat and something in the sun or shade. What might work is a motion sensor, if it could be constrained so as to only sense motion within the confines of the vehicle. It strikes me that any such device will open the carmaker to liability. For example, let’s say the device opens the windows. Someone sees a baby in an open car and thinks, ‘Oh! I think I’ll have baby stew tonight!’ and kidnaps it. Or someone’s property is stolen when the device rolls down the windows even if there is no child or pet in the car. Or it starts the engine and turns on the a/c and someone steals the car. What if it’s a standard transmission? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/25 "2014-09-23T17:50:06Z")
[This Pulitzer Prize-winning story](http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html) from The Washington Post offers a couple of reasons why it’s not been made mandatory in new cars, or why aftermarket devices aren’t available. A big one is liability, in case the device fails when a child is left in the back seat. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/26 "2014-09-23T17:53:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Weight? It annoys me that I get a seat belt warning flashing light if I put a book in the passenger seat. A weight sensor would cause a lot of false alarms. Sound? Sounds get into cars. Not reliable. Body heat? It would have to work on temperature differential, and I don’t see how a device could distinguish between body heat and something in the sun or shade. What might work is a motion sensor, if it could be constrained so as to only sense motion within the confines of the vehicle. Good idea with a motion sensor – but the other problems do not seem insurmountable to me. It could work with multiple sensors, which only trigger the action with the appropriate combination of factors – this should reduce such false positives. > [@](#): > > It strikes me that any such device will open the carmaker to liability. For example, let’s say the device opens the windows. Someone sees a baby in an open car and thinks, ‘Oh! I think I’ll have baby stew tonight!’ and kidnaps it. Or someone’s property is stolen when the device rolls down the windows even if there is no child or pet in the car. Or it starts the engine and turns on the a/c and someone steals the car. What if it’s a standard transmission? Maybe this is the explanation – especially with **Dewey’s** latest link. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/27 "2014-09-23T18:30:54Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Smashing the windshield would also piss off the car owner more, since it would have to be replaced. That’d be at least part of my motivation. Hell, I might have smashed the windshield, realized “oh, darn, can’t reach the door lock from here without cutting myself,” and then smashed a side window. Maybe a couple more windows, to get that cross-ventilation going while I work on getting the baby out. I’m curious why you want to make life more difficult for a stupid person. This sort of things happen not because someone is evil, but because they are stupid, and they probably have many more problems stemming from that. It certainly won’t change their behavior, save in her Husband looking for you with a baseball bat. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/28 "2014-09-23T18:34:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Better that than the alternative (ignoring children left in hot cars). Yes, that’s what I expected people to say. Ignoring children who are in danger is bad. Assuming children are in danger when they are not is also bad, and I expect that’s also going to happen. See also: people who call the police whenever they see a child playing unattended. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/29 "2014-09-23T18:43:40Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [This Pulitzer Prize-winning story](http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html) from The Washington Post offers a couple of reasons why it’s not been made mandatory in new cars, or why aftermarket devices aren’t available. A big one is liability, in case the device fails when a child is left in the back seat. Though that is an excellent piece, there are actually after market solutions. They don’t sell for the reasons noted in the article, no one thinks it can happen to them. If I had a kid I would have triple redundancy in warning systems because it is damn likely to happen to me as I am so forgetful. This happened at the NASA facility where I work around a decade ago. Guy devoted himself to coming up with a solution. Turns out they just couldn’t market it. No one would buy it. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/30 "2014-09-23T18:44:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, that’s what I expected people to say. Ignoring children who are in danger is bad. Assuming children are in danger when they are not is also bad, and I expect that’s also going to happen. See also: people who call the police whenever they see a child playing unattended. Can you give an example of an infant or toddler in a locked car with closed windows and no parent in sight that isn’t dangerous? Unless you meant people are going to start smashing windows because there’s a 15 year old playing on her iPhone in the back seat. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/31 "2014-09-23T18:46:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, that’s what I expected people to say. Ignoring children who are in danger is bad. Assuming children are in danger when they are not is also bad, and I expect that’s also going to happen. See also: people who call the police whenever they see a child playing unattended. I can see lawsuits. Fred stops his car, turns off the engine, gets out to pry a piece of gravel from his tire. He looks up and Bill is smashing his window out with a crowbar. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/32 "2014-09-23T18:49:24Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Can you give an example of an infant or toddler in a locked car with closed windows and no parent in sight that isn’t dangerous? This is trivially easy – a parent stops for 2 minutes, perhaps to pick up a prescription or something – and rather than go through the 5 to 10 minute evolution of waking/comforting the baby, putting them in the stroller, etc., they leave them in the car for a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/33 "2014-09-23T19:00:00Z")
Before we start inventing temperature-weight-and-motion detectors that will sense if a baby is at risk – you all realize that cars can be operated without seatbelts being fastened, right? Isn’t that a far bigger threat to safety in general? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/34 "2014-09-23T19:01:03Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Can you give an example of an infant or toddler in a locked car with closed windows and no parent in sight that isn’t dangerous? Unless you meant people are going to start smashing windows because there’s a 15 year old playing on her iPhone in the back seat. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is trivially easy – a parent stops for 2 minutes, perhaps to pick up a prescription or something – and rather than go through the 5 to 10 minute evolution of waking/comforting the baby, putting them in the stroller, etc., they leave them in the car for a few minutes. That. It’s not dangerous to leave a child in a car. It’s commonplace and my parents did it reasonably often. I assume most people’s parents did. On the other hand leaving a small child unattended in a car for too long on a hot day is dangerous and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/35 "2014-09-23T19:01:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is trivially easy – a parent stops for 2 minutes, perhaps to pick up a prescription or something – and rather than go through the 5 to 10 minute evolution of waking/comforting the baby, putting them in the stroller, etc., they leave them in the car for a few minutes. And how many stories do you hear about cars that are stolen with an infant in the back? Most are simply ditched (the cars with the kid in it) once the thief realizes there is a kid in the car. Sometimes the kid is dropped by the side of the road and the car is kept. Sometimes it takes hours to find the child. Yep - well worth saving that 5-10 minutes. :smack: As annoying as it can be to haul the bambino around, I never, ever left the kidlets in the car. 10 years old, let’s talk. Babies - WTF. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/36 "2014-09-23T19:07:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why hasn’t this problem been fixed with technology, at least for new cars? It shouldn’t be that hard to make some device that senses temperature as well as (by weight, sound, body heat, etc.) whether a child is in the car, and sounds an alarm/opens all windows/turns on AC if the temperature inside gets too high. These seem like very minor engineering challenges that wouldn’t cost more than a few hundred dollars per vehicle. or an ejection seat. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/37 "2014-09-23T19:09:00Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > And how many stories do you hear about cars that are stolen with an infant in the back? Most are simply ditched (the cars with the kid in it) once the thief realizes there is a kid in the car. Sometimes the kid is dropped by the side of the road and the car is kept. > > Sometimes it takes hours to find the child. Yep - well worth saving that 5-10 minutes. :smack: > > As annoying as it can be to haul the bambino around, I never, ever left the kidlets in the car. 10 years old, let’s talk. Babies - WTF. That’s a perfectly reasonable position, but someone asked for a scenario so I provided it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/38 "2014-09-23T19:12:02Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > And how many stories do you hear about cars that are stolen with an infant in the back? Most are simply ditched (the cars with the kid in it) once the thief realizes there is a kid in the car. Sometimes the kid is dropped by the side of the road and the car is kept. > > Sometimes it takes hours to find the child. Yep - well worth saving that 5-10 minutes. :smack: > > As annoying as it can be to haul the bambino around, I never, ever left the kidlets in the car. 10 years old, let’s talk. Babies - WTF. People become irrational about children, particularly their own. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/39 "2014-09-23T19:43:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > …What was the matter with them? It’s Texas…so the answer is “a lot”. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291/40 "2014-09-23T20:10:19Z")
Getting the kid out, good. Breaking the windshield dumb. As has been noted the windshield is a sandwich of two pieces of tempered safety glass laminated to a plastic sheet in between break the glass and the plastic sheet is still there with lots of little pieces of glass stuck on both sides. You then have to get through a very tough flexible plastic sheet to reach the door handle. Much smarter to break a side window which is not likely to be laminated glass\*. Also the inner door handle is right there. Personally I’d probably break the driver’s window so the idiot parent would have to clean the seat before they could drive home. \*Some high end cars have anti-smash (laminated) side windows but these are fairly rare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-samaritan-saves-baby-in-spite-of-security-guards-warning/699291.md?page=3)