# Good stories that aren't true **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 20, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418 "2012-02-20T14:18:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/41 "2012-02-21T02:32:51Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Al Gore did not win an Oscar. It was Davis Guggenheim that won for _An Inconvienent Truth_. I find that truth inconvenient. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/42 "2012-02-21T02:53:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There was one important precedent set by the Mayflower Compact - the signers were acting on their own. They had not been authorized to set up a local government by England. > > The Virginia House of Burgesses was authorized by the Virginia Company, which was itself authorized to run the colony of Virginia. So the Virginians were essentially given their local government by England. The Plymouth colonists formed a government on their own authority, even though they recognized English supremacy over that government. I sure as heck didn’t know that! Another thing my teachers taught me wrongly. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/43 "2012-02-21T03:09:26Z")
[The Mohicans live on](http://www.dickshovel.com/Mahican.html)! ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/44 "2012-02-21T03:39:55Z")
The one about Tasmanian Aborigines being extinct doesn’t play too well in Australia, but is apparently widely believed in the northern hemisphere. It is generally believed that no 100% indigenous Tasmanians exist, but there are many mixed-race people who are **culturally** indigenous Tasmanians; the culture survives. And I don’t recommend telling any of those people that they’re not “real” Tasmanian Aborigines because they’re not “racially pure”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/45 "2012-02-21T04:42:34Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The one about Tasmanian Aborigines being extinct doesn’t play too well in Australia, but is apparently widely believed in the northern hemisphere. > > It is generally believed that no 100% indigenous Tasmanians exist, but there are many mixed-race people who are **culturally** indigenous Tasmanians; the culture survives. And I don’t recommend telling any of those people that they’re not “real” Tasmanian Aborigines because they’re not “racially pure”. I think I speak for most Americans when I say we don’t have any strong beliefs on the issue of Tasmanian Aborigines. But I personally question the claims of the current Tasmanian Aborigines. My understanding is that they essentially self-proclaimed themselves as Aborigines. Would I be able to declare that I’m an Aborigine and I’m entitled to the legacy of my people? I can see where such claims are questioned. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/46 "2012-02-21T04:55:12Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The one about Tasmanian Aborigines being extinct doesn’t play too well in Australia, but is apparently widely believed in the northern hemisphere. > > It is generally believed that no 100% indigenous Tasmanians exist, but there are many mixed-race people who are **culturally** indigenous Tasmanians; the culture survives. And I don’t recommend telling any of those people that they’re not “real” Tasmanian Aborigines because they’re not “racially pure”. Similarly the aboriginal people of New Zealand who were supposedly wiped out by the Maori did not actually ever exist. I have long suspected that this is a conceit spread by racists in order to indicate that the Maori are ‘just as bad’ as European colonists. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/47 "2012-02-21T05:36:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think I speak for most Americans when I say we don’t have any strong beliefs on the issue of Tasmanian Aborigines. > > But I personally question the claims of the current Tasmanian Aborigines. My understanding is that they essentially self-proclaimed themselves as Aborigines. Would I be able to declare that I’m an Aborigine and I’m entitled to the legacy of my people? I can see where such claims are questioned. Your understanding is wrong. The cultural groups - “tribal organisations” if you like - that exist nowadays have a proven direct connection to and descent from indigenous Tasmanians. It’s not like a bunch of white people with a few drops of native blood got together and re-invented Tasmanian Aboriginal culture; the culture survived. Not completely, and much was lost, but it’s a continuing culture, not a reinvented one. And no, you wouldn’t be able to claim Aboriginality unchallenged. I’ve met a few Tasmanian Aborigines, but not known any well. I _have_ known some mainland Aborigines well, and to “qualify” as an Aborigine you need to be able to _prove_ Aboriginal descent - they do investigate people who claim Aboriginal descent, and if you don’t have evidence, it’s tough luck. It’s not uncommon that people claim to be indigenous to make money by selling fake Aboriginal art, which can be quite profitable. The benefits of Aboriginality aren’t that good, but you do get people falsely claiming them anyway. The elders do investigate this stuff, and false claims of Aboriginality are exposed and publicised. There is a dispute between the two main groups representing indigenous Tasmanians, and each has been known to accuse the other of not being “real” indigenous Tasmanians, but as far as I know both are accepted as genuine by everyone who isn’t part of the dispute. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/48 "2012-02-21T06:38:33Z")
“Play it again, Sam!” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/49 "2012-02-21T10:30:03Z")
I would like to second **johnpost** ’s suggestion (post 16 above) that we should post some addition information about each story, if possible. Like what “really” happened instead, if anything. The posts above that have done that really do make this thread interesting. > [@thelabdude](#): > > OK Columbus didn’t prove the world was round, George Washington never chopped the cherry tree down, Everett Dirksen never said ‘‘A billion here, a billion there and pretty soon you are talking real money.’’, Galileo never dropped the balls off the tower of Pisa, etc. What other great stories never happened? I started to post this in GQ, but decided people might questions some of them. We can argue all day here. Educated people in Columbus time knew that of course, and had since classical Greek days, but the uneducated teeming masses might have still thought the world was flat. What Columbus set out to do was find a shorter route to India by sailing West – and he FAILED at that! (And, according to the histories, never knew it even to his dying day.) Everett Dirksen non-quote: News to me. Did he say something along those lines? Did somebody else say that? I had long thought it was William Proxmire, famous for his “Golden Fleece Award”, but I’ve learned that ain’t so either. George and the tree: In the early 19th century, American boosterism was very fashionable, including over-the-top adulation, even deification, of the founding fathers, most especially Washington. Parson Weems, a history book writer of the day, was big into this. He fabricated a lot of that stuff, and particularly went over-the-top in his exaltation of Washington. See [Parson Weems](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parson_Weems) Wikipedia article. Weems original telling of the cherry tree story, quoted there, is a hoot! > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > . . . > Or do you mean stories that people tell thinking that they are true even though they aren’t? Those are called urban legends. . . . What I think we are getting at in this thread are those legends (urban or otherwise) that have become very established (like Washington and the cherry tree), more so that your usual run-of-the-mouth urban legends. > [@bup](#): > > A personal pet peeve of mine - Ben Franklin did not want the turkey to be the bird of the United States of America. Another Franklin story: About the kite in the storm: As popularly told (and pictured), he put a key on the string, and touched it, and got a shock from that. I recently saw an article somewhere that told a much more plausible version: He could have gotten killed doing that, and Franklin was damn well smart enough to know that. Instead, he actually had the kite string tied to a metal stake in the ground (perhaps with some kind of electricity measuring equipment of some sort), and there was probably no actual key involved. What he actually did was a sober scientific experiment, not some dumbass daredevil stunt. > [@Spoke](#): > > The Mayflower Compact was not the seminal moment for democracy in England’s American colonies. And they weren’t the first of the colonists, coming to seek religious freedom, as we were sometimes taught in 3rd grade. The earliest colonists (Jamestown, 1607) were basically mercantilists coming to set up plantations. The Mayflower settlers, seeking religious freedom, came much later. I didn’t know that until I took U. S. History in college. > [@Gagundathar](#): > > I sure as heck didn’t know that! > Another thing my teachers taught me wrongly. > > Thanks. From my comment just above (not to mention the Washington cherry tree story), you can see that we learned a lot of things wrong. MUST READ: [Lies My Teacher Told Me](http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/liesmyteachertoldme.php) by James Loewen. Each chapter examines, and criticizes, a popular American history legend or fabrication as commonly taught in U. S. schools and textbooks. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/50 "2012-02-21T11:01:45Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The Mayflower settlers, seeking religious freedom, came much later. I didn’t know that until I took U. S. History in college. And the Mayflower settlers weren’t seeking religious freedom as we would understand the term; they were seeking freedom to follow their own religion. Later settlers to Massachusetts Colony made it pretty clear that they meant their own religion and only their own religion. For colonies that really practiced religious freedom, don’t look at Massachusetts or Virginia, but Rhode Island and Pennsylvania. Rhode Island was specifically founded for the people whose religious views got them kicked out of Massachusetts. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/51 "2012-02-21T12:40:18Z")
Another Must Read is Richard Shenkman’s **Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of American History**. Shenkman didn’t have an agenda like Loewen’s, but he did go through lots of history books and journals to produce a list of things everyone knows about history that’s wrong. He doesn’t explain in great detail, but he does give you the references to explore further – it’s kind of like Jearl D. Walker’s _The Flying Circus of Physics_, only with history. Shenkman folowed up with another equally good (but unfortunately titled) book, _I Love Paul Revere, Even if he never Rode_. (The title is from a speech by one of our former presidents). His next book, _Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of World History_, is shorter and lighter in tone, and gives the impression of a rushed job. His first book was turnred into an audio book\* and later a TV series, and went through a gazillion paperback editions. His other two books seem to have faded into obscurity\*\*. \*Read by Gary Owens, the “Announcer” from _Rowan and Martion’s Laugh-In_. Owens sounds as if he’s reading the stuff alioud for the first time, and doesn’t agree with some of it. \*\* Althoughm, oddly, his earlier book, _One Night Stands in American History_, has been reprinted numerous times, despite it not being as good, and Shenkman admits it has errors. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/52 "2012-02-21T15:42:44Z")
Senegoid writes: \> Educated people in Columbus time knew that of course, and had since classical \> Greek days, but the uneducated teeming masses might have still thought the \> world was flat. Actually, as is clear from the discussion in several ongoing SDMB threads, it appears that the “uneducated teeming masses” did know that the word was round. There’s no evidence that they thought it was round. \> What I think we are getting at in this thread are those legends (urban or \> otherwise) that have become very established (like Washington and the cherry \> tree), more so that your usual run-of-the-mouth urban legends. And a far faster way to learn about such urban legends than reading this thread is to work your way through Snopes: > **[Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/)** > > The definitive Internet reference source for urban legends, folklore, myths, rumors, and misinformation. Incidentally, there is no contrast of urban legends and non-urban legends in the sense that you think there is. Modern-day American society (or the society of wherever you happen to live) does not have urban legends about cities and rural legends about the countryside. The term “urban legend” means legends of societies advanced enough to have cities in them. The contrast is with the legends of primitive societies with no cities. All the legends about modern-day American society are urban legends by definition. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/53 "2012-02-21T15:51:34Z")
It’s a good story, but it’s better that it really isn’t true- the Hungarian ‘suicide song’ GLOOMY SUNDAY really has not triggered random suicides in its long history. I first came across this story in one of Frank Edwards “Strange But True” books. I have since learned that genre of book should be called “Strange But Bullshit”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/54 "2012-02-21T16:08:06Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Another Must Read is Richard Shenkman’s **Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of American History**. Shenkman didn’t have an agenda like Loewen’s, but he did go through lots of history books and journals to produce a list of things everyone knows about history that’s wrong. He doesn’t explain in great detail, but he does give you the references to explore further – it’s kind of like Jearl D. Walker’s _The Flying Circus of Physics_, only with history. Shenkman folowed up with another equally good (but unfortunately titled) book, _I Love Paul Revere, Even if he never Rode_. (The title is from a speech by one of our former presidents). His next book, _Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of World History_, is shorter and lighter in tone, and gives the impression of a rushed job. His first book was turnred into an audio book\* and later a TV series, and went through a gazillion paperback editions. His other two books seem to have faded into obscurity\*\*. Another book in this genre is _They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, and Misleading Attributions_ by Paul Boller and John George. Boller also wrote _Not So!: Popular Myths About America From Columbus to Clinton_. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/55 "2012-02-21T16:22:39Z")
Bankers and others didn’t throw themselves out of windows en mass after the market crash of 1929. There was an increase in the suicide rate for some years after so many people lost everything they had (which is to be expected), but the popular picture of people jumping from tall buildings just didn’t take place. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/56 "2012-02-21T16:27:43Z")
Christine Jorgensen was not the first person to have a sex change (even though it said that in her _NY Times_ obit). She \*was \*the first person to have a sex change and a press agent. ---
**Author:** ![Jasper\_Kent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@Jasper\_Kent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasper_Kent)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/57 "2012-02-21T17:07:15Z")
Every teacher I ever pissed off told me: “This is going in your _ **permanent record!** _” If there is such a thing as a “permanent record,” I never heard about it again after high school. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/58 "2012-02-21T17:25:17Z")
Yeay, that permanent record silliness. One of my classmates now is the CEO of an engineering firm. He was also the guy who threw a whole stick of potassium down the toilet in the boy’s bathroom at my high school. My next-door neighbor was in the adjoining bathroom. She was, unfortunately, on the toilet when the potassium… reacted explosively. She was ‘only’ blown upright from her sitting position and was treated for minor burns. The concrete block wall between the two bathrooms was significantly breached… as in a 6 foot hole had been blown through them. Bathrooms two were off limits for the remainder of the school year. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/59 "2012-02-21T17:40:47Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth… [moderator note] Religious potshots are not allowed in GQ. Do not do this again. If you wish to debate religion, please use the Great Debates forum. [/moderator note] ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418/60 "2012-02-21T17:43:29Z")
> [@Jasper\_Kent](#): > > Every teacher I ever pissed off told me: > > “This is going in your _ **permanent record!** _” > > If there is such a thing as a “permanent record,” I never heard about it again after high school. Ah, yes, the “permanent record.” I recently discovered that no such thing exists when I tried to obtain my elementary school records, and after several rounds of phone tag and pass-the-buck discovered that those records were thrown away years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/good-stories-that-arent-true/613418.md?page=4)