# Goodbye, Norma Jean. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 5, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432 "2004-08-05T12:20:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/1 "2004-08-05T12:20:01Z")
☹ She was beautiful. [http://www.historychannel.com/tdih/tdih.jsp?month=10272960&day=10272970&cat=10272944](http://www.historychannel.com/tdih/tdih.jsp?month=10272960&day=10272970&cat=10272944) And…Beauty always passes away. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/2 "2004-08-05T13:08:36Z")
Agreed . . . but she died on the evening of Aug. 4. I’m a huge Marilyn Queen, but death was a good career move for her: she was at the height of her beauty; and can you imagine her in the 1960s and '70s? Jesus, look what the '60s did to Jayne Mansfield, Kim Novak, Liz Taylor. The poor girl would have wound up in ABC Movies of the Week, playing Discontented Suburban Housewives considering an affair with Monte Markham. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/3 "2004-08-05T13:47:32Z")
I never really understood her appeal. She wasn’t all that good at playing dumb blondes (she never had the requisite intelligence, though I understand she was fairly smart in real life), and her characterizations always seemed gratingly overdone. I don’t even think she’s that pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/4 "2004-08-05T14:44:54Z")
I think she was over-rated as a comedienne (her schtick was cute, but it was the same stuff over and over again), but under-rated as a dramatic actress (_The Misfits, Bus Stop, Clash By Night_) and a singer. Beauty is subjective, but I can’t think of anyone more lovely than she was in her last uncompleted film, _Something’s Got to Give_. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/5 "2004-08-05T14:57:14Z")
I never thought she was all that beautiful, or all that good an actress. But when she’s onscreen I can’t take my eyes off her. She had “it.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/6 "2004-08-05T15:28:13Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I think she was over-rated as a comedienne (her schtick was cute, but it was the same stuff over and over again), but under-rated as a dramatic actress (_The Misfits, Bus Stop, Clash By Night_) and a singer. > > Beauty is subjective, but I can’t think of anyone more lovely than she was in her last uncompleted film, _Something’s Got to Give_. I totally agree. I think she was usually cast in comic roles because of her appearance, and her voice, but the roles I’ve really appreciated her in have been the dramatic roles. And I have a pile of her recordings; I love her singing. She was kind of a primary element, you know? She’s one of those people you reference when describing other people, and everyone knows what you mean. “She’s got a little of that Marilyn Monroe steely wistfulness, you know?” (Or is it wisftul steeliness?) Like purple has a little red, a little blue in it. Marilyn, Brando, Bette, Bogart, Cher, Cagney, Louise Brooks; primary elements. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/7 "2004-08-05T15:38:19Z")
I realized a few years ago what placed Marilyn Monroe apart from the other sex symbols. Most sex symbols come across as though they want to do you. Monroe had a way of coming across like she wanted to do you…again. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/8 "2004-08-05T15:58:09Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I’m a huge Marilyn Queen, but death was a good career move for her: she was at the height of her beauty; and can you imagine her in the 1960s and '70s? Just look at her in [Let’s Make Love](http://www.marilyn-online.de/photos/ct/original/ct-045.jpg). Although she still had an hourglass figure, it had become a bit wider. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/9 "2004-08-05T16:10:00Z")
But right before her death (due to gall-bladder surgery and diet), she’d [slimmed down almost alarmingly](http://members.tripod.com/~VicMas/SGTG.html) . . . Gotta get my gall bladder out . . . ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/10 "2004-08-05T19:11:25Z")
Great stars above, Marilyn was _gorgeous_ in _Something’s Got to Give_. (Notice, by the way, that she was wearing a flesh-colored bikini when shooting her famous “nude” swim scene. The bikini came off only for publicity stills afterward.) Had she lived, Marilyn might have gone the Kim Novak route of increasing inconsequentiality . . . Or, she might have developed into a talented character actress _a la_ Shirley MacLaine. I would have loved to seen Marilyn Monroe as Mrs. Robinson in _The Graduate_. Or in _Day for Night_, _The Turning Point_, _Nashville_. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/11 "2004-08-05T19:15:16Z")
. . . or as Belle Rosen in _The Poseidon Adventure_ . . . ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/12 "2004-08-05T20:13:00Z")
… or the nationally beloved widow of the assassinated president in _Guarding Tess…_ ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/13 "2004-08-05T22:53:56Z")
She could be one of _The Golden Girls_. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/14 "2004-08-06T05:45:40Z")
Mama Soprano. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/15 "2004-08-06T06:11:05Z")
There’s a new Monroe [biography](http://www.365gay.com/entertainment/news&gossip/barnes.htm) coming out that asserts she and Joan Crawford had a brief affair. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/16 "2004-08-06T13:26:15Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > There’s a new Monroe [biography](http://www.365gay.com/entertainment/news&gossip/barnes.htm) coming out that asserts she and Joan Crawford had a brief affair. Matthew Smith? Never heard of 'im. Might be legit, might not. But Joannie was virulently heterosexual, slept with just about every guy on the MGM lot (well, OK, not Ramon Novarro or Billy Haines), and I have never heard of Marilyn having bi-tendencies, either. I have a sneaking feeling this is a marketing ploy. Besides, Joan didn’t like Marilyn (thought she was vulgar) and Marilyn was (probably rightfully) terrified of Joan. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/17 "2004-08-06T19:11:53Z")
Here’s another [article](http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2004/08/05/5) on the topic with a little more detail. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-norma-jean/258432/18 "2004-08-06T19:56:07Z")
From all the reliable sources I’ve read on both ladies, I remain dubious.