# Goodbye, Straight Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899 "2018-08-20T02:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/201 "2018-08-21T18:49:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry that you do not feel cool, smart or witty. I’m sorry that you aren’t cool, smart, or witty. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/202 "2018-08-21T18:50:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If you think about it, though, it generally works the other way around… Is this what you’re hinting at? > **[Galileo gambit](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Galileo_gambit)** > > The Galileo gambit (also Galileo syndrome\[2\]:165-166 and Galileo fallacy) is a logical fallacy that asserts that if your ideas provoke the establishment to supposedly vilify or threaten you, then you must be right — "everyone says I am wrong,... The fact that your views do _not_ find validation here does not imply that you a noble unheralded champion of the truth. > [@Carl Sagan](#): > > The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/203 "2018-08-21T18:53:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s common for people to make this claim, but while it may have some truth to it in individual instances, for the most part it’s bogus, and the people making this claim are self-deluded at best. > > Anyone whose positions on current political issues are even somewhat aligned with the mainstream left/liberal/Democrats would not have been a conservative at any time within living memory. > … I disagree. You may have valued lower deficits and lower taxes, but you see that all the Republicans do when they are in office is blow up the deficit with higher spending and lower taxes. Since you can do math, you realize you have to either cut spending or raise taxes, and since the Democrats at least try to do the second, you side with them. Or, you have a scientific background and have decided you can no longer accept the Republicans’ anti-science views on, for example, global warming and switch parties. Or you finally see the light that the Laffer curve is BS and voodoo economics doesn’t work, so you give up on the party for that reason. Or, you’re a fiscal conservative, but can no longer stomach the Republican view on gay marriage or trans rights or something like that. Now, instead of conservative, let’s take about people giving up on the Republicans – I think the number of prominent Never Trumpers argues against you as well. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/204 "2018-08-21T18:58:19Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m sorry that you aren’t cool, smart, or witty. Sounds rather judgmental from someone who whines about being judged constantly. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/205 "2018-08-21T19:09:45Z")
_“There can be only one”_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/206 "2018-08-21T19:11:27Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > _“There can be only one”_ So, all I’ve got to do is behead you? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/207 "2018-08-21T19:13:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sounds rather judgmental from someone who whines about being judged constantly. > Sad. You know, I was tempted to do a Czarcasm pastiche and turn this into an endless JAQ-ing Off session, but no. You are a miserable little man whose whole life turns on this place. IRL, from your own self-description, you are a moral and physical coward. You lack virtually all of the graces that anyone would find endearing. Go back to your miserable life of daily humiliations. Nothing I could say to or about you would sting you any worse than the thoughts you try to suppress every night when you go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/208 "2018-08-21T19:14:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > IOW, it’s technically true that Obama did not mean that you didn’t build your business; he meant that you didn’t build the public infrastructure which supports your business. But in context, he was making the exact same point. That since your business relies on that public infrastructure, which you didn’t build, you therefore owe part of your business to the public which did build the infrastructure that supports the business. **Which is not really different in meaning than saying you didn’t build the business.** Bullshit. It’s a _huge_ difference. And it’s easy to tell that it’s a huge difference, because every single time a dishonest right-wing shitbag quotes Obama, the point they’re going for is _always_ “Obama says you didn’t build your business!” It’s never “Obama thinks your business relies upon public infrastructure, and therefore you are not a Randian Übermensch”. It’s never the point he was trying to make. It’s _absolutely fucking never_ the speech in context. It’s always exactly that _one_ little dishonest snippet - “If you have a business, you didn’t build that”. Because it’s _not_ the same statement. One is so wrong as to be ludicrous - it boggles the mind that someone would say something that stupid. The other is something only the most bizarre contrarians could dispute. So _of course_ they go for the version where Obama seems like an insane strawman of Karl Marx. Because they’re lying shitbags. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/209 "2018-08-21T19:15:18Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The fact that your views do _not_ find validation here does not imply that you a noble unheralded champion of the truth. Of course. It doesn’t appear that you understood what I was saying (or what the discussion was about altogether). > [@RitterSport](#): > > I disagree. You may have valued lower deficits and lower taxes, but you see that all the Republicans do when they are in office is blow up the deficit with higher spending and lower taxes. Since you can do math, you realize you have to either cut spending or raise taxes, and since the Democrats at least try to do the second, you side with them. Or, you have a scientific background and have decided you can no longer accept the Republicans’ anti-science views on, for example, global warming and switch parties. Or you finally see the light that the Laffer curve is BS and voodoo economics doesn’t work, so you give up on the party for that reason. Or, you’re a fiscal conservative, but can no longer stomach the Republican view on gay marriage or trans rights or something like that. But the Republican position on lowering taxes, the Laffer Curve etc. have been party/conservative positions for decades. But the thing is that you’re acknowledging that the hypothetical guy “finally [saw] the light”, which amounts to repudiating his earlier positions, not the Republicans moving away from him. I’m not sure why you would insist that this is the opposite at the same time as you’re saying that. No one who couldn’t stomach the current conservative/Republican position on gay marriage or trans rights would have been a conservative at any time in history. Bottom line is if your position on issues is more-or-less aligned with the current liberal mainstream, then either you’ve changed your position on the issues or you were never a conservative, notwithstanding any claims to the contrary. > [@](#): > > Now, instead of conservative, let’s take about people giving up on the Republicans – I think the number of prominent Never Trumpers argues against you as well. That’s something else. I alluded to this in my prior post. Being opposed to Trump - or any other individual Republican - is not the same thing as being aligned with liberal positions on the issues, and I think the prominent Never Trumpers would fit that category. Never Trumpers would not be accepted on this MB. (There are any number of conservatives on this MB who did not vote for Trump and who maintain conservative positions and are very much on the outs here, because no one confuses them with people “who used to be” conservatives. FTR, I voted Kasich as a write-in. :)) > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > It’s a _huge_ difference. And it’s easy to tell that it’s a huge difference, because every single time a dishonest right-wing shitbag quotes Obama, the point they’re going for is _always_ “Obama says you didn’t build your business!” It’s never “Obama thinks your business relies upon public infrastructure, and therefore you are not a Randian Übermensch”. I addressed this earlier. They go for the distorted version because it’s a sharper and more provocative soundbite. The underlying attitude is the same, but if you want to get the proletariat riled up the distorted version serves the purpose better. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/210 "2018-08-21T19:20:05Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Totally agree, this message board has become totally hostile to certain ideas and attitudes. Flat earthers, believers in pholgoston, and cryptozoologists can’t make three posts here without their ideas being criticized and told that the “facts” don’t support them. When we fail to acknowledge the possibility that 0.9999… is actually less than 1, it is an indication of the close minded group think that permeates these boards and prevents us from having a more balanced outlook. It is the reason that so many free thinkers like [cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18839692#post18839692) leave our ranks and never come back, causing us to miss out on his illuminating theories of pyramid construction. > > If we want to break out of our echo chamber we need to treat all ideas equally, regardless of the evidence supporting them. After all isn’t that what this board is about? I detect sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/211 "2018-08-21T19:22:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You know, I was tempted to do a Czarcasm pastiche and turn this into an endless JAQ-ing Off session, but no. You are a miserable little man whose whole life turns on this place. IRL, from your own self-description, you are a moral and physical coward. You lack virtually all of the graces that anyone would find endearing. Go back to your miserable life of daily humiliations. Nothing I could say to or about you would sting you any worse than the thoughts you try to suppress every night when you go to bed. [You just might have something there](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)…and I hope your insurance will cover for it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/212 "2018-08-21T19:31:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But the Republican position on lowering taxes, the Laffer Curve etc. have been party/conservative positions for decades. Yes, and that is in the face of all factual and experiential evidence that those things do the opposite of what the Republicans say they do. Pointing that out isn’t a matter of opinion but one of fact and reason vs. ideology. That’s how ignorance-fighting works, and it doesn’t help that the ideologues double down instead of ever doing a reality check. The adoption of that ideology in the Reagan years marked a true shift in the Republican party from the realm of the sane to the realm where Rove could deride nonbelievers as “the reality-based community”. > [@](#): > > No one who couldn’t stomach the current conservative/Republican position on gay marriage or trans rights would have been a conservative at any time in history. Not sure why you think that’s a point. We \*have \*progressed further in our struggle to form a more perfect union etc. now than ever before, or at least that was true in 2016. The point you bring up is just evidence of that, yet you present it as criticism. > [@](#): > > Bottom line is if your position on issues is more-or-less aligned with the current liberal mainstream, then either you’ve changed your position on the issues or you were never a conservative, notwithstanding any claims to the contrary. Was Reagan a conservative by today’s standards? How about Nixon? Hint: Absolutely not. Not even Goldwater. The party used to be a bit to the right of moderate, now they’re just wingnuts. > [@](#): > > They go for the distorted version because it’s a sharper and more provocative soundbite. The underlying attitude is the same, but if you want to get the proletariat riled up the distorted version serves the purpose better. And they call it leadership. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/213 "2018-08-21T19:37:36Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You know, I was tempted to do a Czarcasm pastiche… Would you, please? I think that it would be _so_ delightful, since a pastiche is “a work of visual art, literature, theatre, or music that imitates the style or character of the work of one or more other artists. **Unlike parody, pastiche celebrates, rather than mocks, the work it imitates**.”(bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/214 "2018-08-21T19:39:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [You just might have something there](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)…and I hope your insurance will cover for it. Good Christ…The Rubber/Glue Gambit? You really haven’t an ounce of self-respect left, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/215 "2018-08-21T19:41:05Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Good Christ…The Rubber/Glue Gambit? You really haven’t an ounce of self-respect left, do you? How is that pastiche going? I never knew you admired me that much. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/216 "2018-08-21T20:00:35Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > [Platform | Libertarian Party](https://www.lp.org/platform/) > > 1.5 As I pointed out, multiple of their presidential candidates have strongly disagreed with 1.5, so I’m not sure what you think posting a link to it shows. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/217 "2018-08-21T20:09:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Was Reagan a conservative by today’s standards? How about Nixon? Hint: Absolutely not. Not even Goldwater. The party used to be a bit to the right of moderate, now they’re just wingnuts. Nixon proposed a UHC plan that’s a lot like Obamacare in a lot of ways, and pushed for a universal minimum income, though he later was talked out of it. I really can’t imagine a modern Republican promoting UHC or minimum income. > **[Lessons on Universal Coverage from an Unexpected Advocate: Richard Nixon](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2017/lessons-universal-coverage-unexpected-advocate-richard-nixon)** > > Debate continues about how best to reform the U.S. health care system, including over the roles that federal and state governments and private insurance markets should play in providing coverage. As policymakers explore options to expand on recent... > **[The bizarre tale of President Nixon and his basic income bill](https://thecorrespondent.com/4503/the-bizarre-tale-of-president-nixon-and-his-basic-income-bill/173117835-c34d6145)** > > In 1969 President Richard Nixon was on the verge of implementing a basic income for poor families in America. It promised to be a revolutionary step – had the President not changed his mind at the last minute. This is the incredible and largely... ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/218 "2018-08-21T21:11:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How is that pastiche going? I never knew you admired me that much. Admire? Only in the sense that one could be said to admire a persistent fungal infection. It, after all, never gives up or goes away either. Tonight, when you lay your head down to sleep, think about this exchange. No doubt, you consider yourself the victor. Ask yourself why. Was it because you were smart or cool or witty? Was it because you displayed courage in the face of adversity? Or is it just because you can’t bear to add one more thing to the endless list of times you failed? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/219 "2018-08-21T21:15:49Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Admire? Only in the sense that one could be said to admire a persistent fungal infection. It, after all, never gives up or goes away either. Tonight, when you lay your head down to sleep, think about this exchange. No doubt, you consider yourself the victor. Ask yourself why. Was it because you were smart or cool or witty? Was it because you displayed courage in the face of adversity? Or is it just because you can’t bear to add one more thing to the endless list of times you failed? No, he’s not a winner, not in any real sense. However, in comparison, you are the loser here. You owned yourself trying to use big words that you didn’t understand. It was kinda funny, but the humor get less amusing as you keep digging, For the sake of levity, cut it out. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899/220 "2018-08-21T21:16:04Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Admire? Only in the sense that one could be said to admire a persistent fungal infection. It, after all, never gives up or goes away either. Tonight, when you lay your head down to sleep, think about this exchange. No doubt, you consider yourself the victor. Ask yourself why. Was it because you were smart or cool or witty? Was it because you displayed courage in the face of adversity? Or is it just because you can’t bear to add one more thing to the endless list of times you failed? I’m beginning to suspect that you have no fucking idea what “pastiche” means. 😃 BTW, when I go home, you won’t even be in the top 10,000 of Things Worth Thinking About…but obsess about it all _you_ want-it’s a free country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodbye-straight-dope/819899.md?page=12)