# Goodnight, Rhoda - Valerie Harper dies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 30, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504 "2019-08-30T23:57:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/21 "2019-08-31T21:43:07Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > You’ve got to dig down pretty deep to get to people not mentioned yet who appeared on _MTM_. Two of my favs are Beverly Sanders who appeared as a waitress 3 times and Pat Finley who appeared twice as basically the same character: once named Twinks and another time named Sparkle. Her biggest role was a Bob’s sister on _The Bob Newhart Show_. And 3 different roles on _Lou Grant_. There was also Linda Kelsey, who played Sue Ann’s rival Gloria Munson on \*\*\*MTM \*\*\*and reporter Billie Newman on _ **Lou Grant** _. Still alive at 73. Mary’s Aunt Flo was played by Eileen Heckart (d. 2001). John Saxon, Phyllis’s “escort” in one episode, is still alive at 84. “Whitney Lewis,” who had the hots for Ted and made Mary “look like a dog,” was played by Trisha Noble, who was also "Odette Lependieu " in \*\*\*The Rockford Files \*\*\* and is still around at 75. (She was also in the episode of \*\*\*Columbo \*\*\*I saw the other day.) Here is a list of minor and recurring characters with some that haven’t been mentioned yet: > **[List of The Mary Tyler Moore Show characters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_on_The_Mary_Tyler_Moore_Show)** > > The following is a list of featured characters on The Mary Tyler Moore Show. > Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore) is a single native Minnesotan who moves to Minneapolis in 1970 at age 30 and becomes associate producer of WJM-TV's Six O'Clock News. Her sincere, kind demeanor often acts as a foil for the personalities of her co-workers and friends. > Lou Grant (Edward Asner) is the producer (later executive producer) of the news. His tough, grumpy demeanor initially hides the kind-hearted nature gradu... **Nota bene:** Bill Quinn, Mary’s dad “Walter Richards,” was also Dr McCoy’s father in _ **Star Trek V: The Final Frontier** _. (d. 1994) Lou’s girlfriend Charlene McGuire was originally played by Sheree North, aka “Babs Kramer” on _ **Seinfeld** _. (d. 2005) ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/22 "2019-08-31T22:27:10Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > **Nota bene:** > > Bill Quinn, Mary’s dad “Walter Richards,” was also Dr McCoy’s father in _ **Star Trek V: The Final Frontier** _. (d. 1994) A bit off-topic, but in real life, Bill Quinn was Bob Newhart’s father-in-law. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/23 "2019-08-31T22:33:45Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Mary’s Aunt Flo was played by Eileen Heckart (d. 2001). Wait a minute. Aunt Flo? I was too young to catch it at the time, but the writers on MTM _were_ daring, weren’t they? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/24 "2019-08-31T23:45:25Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I enjoyed the MTM Show as a kid, and always thought it would be more fun to date Rhoda than Mary. Just as attractive, IMO, and far less boring to spend time with. Couldn’t agree more. Mary Richards was the stuff of grade-school crushes, but Rhoda’s wisecracking personality and sexy voice made her a teenage boy’s dream. > [@ftg](#): > > (snip)…Pat Finley who appeared twice as basically the same character: once named Twinks and another time named Sparkle. Her biggest role was a Bob’s sister on _The Bob Newhart Show_. And 3 different roles on _Lou Grant_. Pat Finley (Ellen Hartley) was cute as _hell_. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/25 "2019-08-31T23:47:04Z")
> [@Julius\_Henry](#): > > A bit off-topic, but in real life, Bill Quinn was Bob Newhart’s father-in-law. Why off topic? Both Newhart shows were MTM productions. Some other \*\*\*MTM \*\*\*actors to add to the list: Pat “Marilyn Munster” Priest as Sue Ann’s little sister Lila. Still alive at 83. MacKenzie Phillips, Mary’s JD “little sister,” now 59. Ed Flanders, “Fr Terrance Brian,” aka “Dr Donald Westphal” on _ **St Elsewhere** _. Passed away in 1995 at the age of 60 (!!!). Mary Kay Place, Mary’s new neighbor “Sally Jo,” still around at 71. Penny Marshall, Mary’s other new neighbor “Paula,” passed away last December. Caren Kaye, swimmer/sportscaster “Barbara Jean Smathers,” still alive at 68. She was also on _ **Rhoda** _ and _ **The Betty White Show** _, but not as Barbara Jean. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/26 "2019-08-31T23:59:49Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > MacKenzie Phillips, Mary’s JD “little sister,” now 59. “Francie.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/27 "2019-09-01T00:07:02Z")
Thanks for jogging my memory: “Joanne Forbes,” Mary’s bigoted new friend in “Some of My Best Friends Are Rhodas” (one of the few \*\*\*MTM \*\*\*episodes with a “message”), was played by none other than Mary Frann of \*\*\*Newhart \*\*\*fame! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/28 "2019-09-01T00:27:39Z")
Two more for now: Lew Ayres (d. 1996 at the age of 88) was Murray’s father “Doug Booth.” Helen Hunt (now 56) was Murray’s daughter “Laurie.” Both Ed Flanders and Lew Ayres were from Minneapolis, where \*\*\*MTM \*\*\*was set. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/29 "2019-09-01T00:46:48Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Two more for now: Lew Ayres (d. 1996 at the age of 88) was Murray’s father “Doug Booth.” Helen Hunt (now 56) was Murray’s daughter “Laurie.” > > Both Ed Flanders and Lew Ayres were from Minneapolis, where \*\*\*MTM \*\*\*was set. Ayres starred in the 1930 classic film “All Quiet on the Western Front”. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/30 "2019-09-01T01:27:23Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Two more for now: Lew Ayres (d. 1996 at the age of 88) was Murray’s father “Doug Booth.” Helen Hunt (now 56) was Murray’s daughter “Laurie.” > > Both Ed Flanders and Lew Ayres were from Minneapolis, where \*\*\*MTM \*\*\*was set. > [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Ayres starred in the 1930 classic film “All Quiet on the Western Front”. Lew Ayres was also the movies’ Dr. Kildare. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/31 "2019-09-01T01:57:17Z")
Looking over the series’ complete cast list, I was surprised to find Carole King was in an episode as the aunt of the obnoxious son of Mary’s new boyfriend, played by Laurence Luckenbill, Mr Spock’s “half-brother Sybok.” David Ogden Stiers was in a couple of episodes as WJM’s new station manager; Slim Pickens was in one episode as WJM’s owner. Steve Franken, “Chatsworth Osborne, Jr,” was one of Rhoda’s boyfriends. So was Henry “The Fonz” Winkler. Jack Cassidy was “Hal,” Ted’s competitive brother. Both John Ritter and Richard Kline (“Jack” and “Larry” on _ **Three’s Company** _) were on _ **MTM** _. LOTS of other instantly recognizable names on that list. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/32 "2019-09-02T18:19:59Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Wait a minute. Aunt Flo? I was too young to catch it at the time, but the writers on MTM _were_ daring, weren’t they? 🙂 Yes, I’m surprised she wasn’t shown more often on the show since she came to visit every month. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/33 "2019-09-02T19:12:03Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Jack Cassidy was “Hal,” Ted’s competitive brother. The producers had originally wanted Cassidy to be Ted Baxter, but he turned the role down. They also tried to get Lyle Waggoner. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/34 "2019-09-02T19:39:44Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The producers had originally wanted Cassidy to be Ted Baxter, but he turned the role down. They also tried to get Lyle Waggoner. Prior to being cast for Carol Burnett’s show, Waggoner was in the running for the role of TV’s Batman in 1965. I believe there are clips from his screen test(s) on YouTube. Apparently the producers of that show preferred the combination of Adam West and Burt Ward to Waggoner and his sidekick. (West had previously been in the pilot for _ **Alexander the Great** _, opposite William Shatner.) ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/35 "2019-09-03T00:41:56Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Lew Ayres was also the movies’ Dr. Kildare. Lew Ayres was also Kate Hepburn’s musically-talented (and not allowed to be a professional musician because: high-society rich parents), alcoholic brother in 1937’s **Holiday,** starring Cary Grant. That’s how I always remember him. The Ukulele Lady HATES that movie because Hepburn steals Grant away from her awful sister, who is about to marry him. UL also hates her sister, who she pictured stealing me away from her. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/36 "2019-09-03T19:41:14Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The producers had originally wanted Cassidy to be Ted Baxter, but he turned the role down. They also tried to get Lyle Waggoner. [Slight hijack] Supposedly the producers of _MTM_ has John Belushi (!) in mind for a recurring role, but he was still in his “TV sucks!” phase and turned them down. The mind boggles… * * * I remember watching _Rhoda_ in its original run. The Wedding of The Year followed by the fastest downward ratings spiral since putting _Star Trek_ on Friday nights at 10:00. Boy, was that a Jumping of the Shark. In any case, Ms. Harper, not your fault. RIP, lady. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/37 "2019-09-03T20:16:04Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Both John Ritter and Richard Kline (“Jack” and “Larry” on _ **Three’s Company** _) were on _ **MTM** _. John Ritter was very memorable as the Reverend who married Ted and Georgette. He showed up straight from the tennis court in shorts and carrying a racquet. At the time, he was regularly playing the Reverend on _The Waltons_, one of my favorite characters, and I thought it was a great meta joke to have him playing a preacher on MTM. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/38 "2019-09-03T22:32:59Z")
That episode contained what may be my favorite line from the MTM Show: As the impromptu wedding is coming together, Mary pulls Georgette aside and asks if she’s really sure about marrying Ted. Georgette replies that she is. Mary inquires further, “Then you do love him?” “Oh yes”, Georgette replies. _“Somebody has to”._ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/39 "2019-09-03T23:55:09Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > That episode contained what may be my favorite line from the MTM Show: > > As the impromptu wedding is coming together, Mary pulls Georgette aside and asks if she’s really sure about marrying Ted. > > Georgette replies that she is. > > Mary inquires further, “Then you do love him?” > > “Oh yes”, Georgette replies. _“Somebody has to”._ I think my favorite line came when Ted was waiting anxiously to learn if he’d been hired as host of a new network game show. When news doesn’t come, he rants about how he didn’t want the job anyway, and says he’s perfectly happy to stay in Minneapolis. In fact, he _LOVVVVVVVVVVES_ Minneapolis! Then the phone rings: “Maybe this is my ticket out of this dump!” Being from Minneapolis myself, I know \*exactly \*how he felt! ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504/40 "2019-09-04T15:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So now only Phyllis, Beth, and Mr Grant are left? EVERY time I’m reminded of Ed Asner, I’m shocked he’s still alive. Anyway, RIP Valerie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goodnight-rhoda-valerie-harper-dies/839504.md?page=3)