# Google Fires Author of Divisive Memo on Gender Differences **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055 "2017-08-08T03:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/1 "2017-08-08T03:12:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Alphabet Inc.’s Google has fired an employee who wrote an internal memo blasting the web company’s diversity policies, creating a firestorm across Silicon Valley. > > James Damore, the Google engineer who wrote the note, confirmed his dismissal in an email, saying that he had been fired for “perpetuating gender stereotypes.” A Google representative didn’t immediately return a request for comment… > > Earlier on Monday, Google CEO Sundar Pichai sent a note to employees that said portions of the memo “violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace.” But he didn’t say if the company was taking action against the employee. > > Damore’s 10-page memorandum accused Google of silencing conservative political opinions and argued that biological differences play a role in the shortage of women in tech and leadership positions. It circulated widely inside the company and became public over the weekend, causing a furor that amplified the pressure on Google executives to take a more definitive stand. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo) Here is the memo: > **[Exclusive: Here's The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating...](https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320)** > > Update 8/5/17 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance Danielle Brown has issued her own memo to Google employees in response to the now-viral memo, “Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber.” Brown’s statement,... I disagree with the firing. While it would be appropriate to fire him if in fact he did behave badly toward female colleagues, this was not the case–instead he was fired just because he expressed an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/2 "2017-08-08T03:31:59Z")
yeah but this was one of those opinions he should of kept to himself… I mean its almost like saying like theres mental/physical l reasons black people shouldn’t be engineers … ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/3 "2017-08-08T04:14:20Z")
I’m surprised it took Google so long. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/4 "2017-08-08T04:17:41Z")
Any employee can and should be fired for embarrassing the company like he did. It’s a public company and public relations are a big deal. What he did showed ridiculously poor judgment. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/5 "2017-08-08T04:23:58Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Any employee can and should be fired for embarrassing the company like he did. It’s a public company and public relations are a big deal. What he did showed ridiculously poor judgment. In what way was it poor judgement? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/6 "2017-08-08T04:29:02Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In what way was it poor judgement? Writing it up as a ten page memo and sending it out via inter-company mail particularly in light of recent law suits in which Google is involved. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/7 "2017-08-08T05:31:50Z")
It can very well be argued that the memo itself violates the policy, since he sent it out to everyone. Thus he specifically told the women in the workplace that they were biologically inferior in regards to their job. It seems that multiple people reported they were uncomfortable working with him after this. And since that discomfort came from an action and not who he was, that’s a valid grounds for firing. Why keep the guy no one wants to work with? I also wouldn’t be surprised if he intended to be fired. It would be a great way to “stick it to the PC police.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/8 "2017-08-08T06:25:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Thus he specifically told the women in the workplace that they were biologically inferior in regards to their job. Where? As best I can tell, he took care to emphasize that he was talking about population-level trends, not individuals. For example: _Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions._ Not that that makes his statements correct, but he wasn’t insulting particular coworkers. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/9 "2017-08-08T06:35:34Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Where? As best I can tell, he took care to emphasize that he was talking about population-level trends, not individuals. For example: > _Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions._ > > Not that that makes his statements correct, but he wasn’t insulting particular coworkers. Were they incorrect? If he were talking about an infantry division would he be incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/10 "2017-08-08T06:53:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Were they incorrect? If he were talking about an infantry division would he be incorrect? I have no idea if the statements are correct or not. It’s plausible that biology plays a part, but I don’t know. My perspective is that whatever the trends are, they get a very early start. By the time people are interviewing for a job, it’s too late. If you look at participation rates in just about any tech related area, men dominate. Computer science grads, open source projects, high school robotics teams, coding contests, whatever. Even in elementary school there is a huge bias. There’s no way to make up for that bias after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/11 "2017-08-08T07:41:58Z")
I have no personal experience of the culture inside Google, and maybe they’re generally free and easy about such matters, but at any workplace _ **I’ve** _ ever worked in, I would expect that anyone spamming the company with a ten-page essay starting off with a great chunk about how something that’s not their job (choosing how to hire people) is being Done All Wrong by the people whose job it actually _ **is** _ … would get fired. Because getting up on your soapbox in public about how other people who aren’t you should do their jobs is kind of obnoxious, entitled and annoying - and who wants to work with obnoxious, entitled and annoying people? Assuming he’s not a hiring manager, why does he care if “too many” women or minorities are being hired. Do your own job, mate, and let people with hiring responsibilities do theirs. Also, there is absolutely no way to read that complaint as anything other than a slam on the quality of people who’ve already come through existing diversity programs, no matter how many “oh, but I don’t mean YOU!” disclaimers he puts on the front. If he’d restricted himself to stuff that actually does affect him - training programs he has to attend, internal policies about how to relate to co-workers - he’d be on much firmer ground. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/12 "2017-08-08T08:12:49Z")
It was too long, it was excessively dense, and I could not summon the will to read past the first paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/13 "2017-08-08T08:26:08Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > While it would be appropriate to fire him if in fact he did behave badly toward female colleagues, this was not the case–instead he was fired just because he expressed an opinion. Sending a ten page letter to people, telling them you feel they are genetically inferior to you is behaving badly. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/14 "2017-08-08T10:09:37Z")
This guy is such a fucking snowflake. Waaah, men have it tough at Google. Waaah, we need diversity preferences for right wingers. Waaaah, I’m bothered by women who are here and not being nurses or teachers. Yeah, Google as a business has really been held back by their leftist political thought. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/15 "2017-08-08T10:39:43Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I have no idea if the statements are correct or not. It’s plausible that biology plays a part, but I don’t know. > > My perspective is that whatever the trends are, they get a very early start. By the time people are interviewing for a job, it’s too late. If you look at participation rates in just about any tech related area, men dominate. Computer science grads, open source projects, high school robotics teams, coding contests, whatever. Even in elementary school there is a huge bias. There’s no way to make up for that bias after the fact. In 4th grade 2/3 of both girls and boys are interested in science. By 12th grade 60% of girls and 70% of boys are still interested in science. After Calc I in college, however, 30% of men and 20% of women are still interested in following a science track, even though a 2015 study indicates that women outperform men in Calc I. [Cite](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/calculus-stem-gender-gap_us_57a1b9eee4b0e2e15eb7df83?section=&) with hyperlinks to supporting documentation. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/16 "2017-08-08T10:50:16Z")
Was he asked to write the memo and send it out? Did he do so on company time and did his memo disparage his employer? As far as I can tell, he wrote it on his own volition and he most definitely disparaged his employer. Of course he got fired. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/17 "2017-08-08T11:05:21Z")
How often has sharing your manifesto turned out to be a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/18 "2017-08-08T11:23:44Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > In 4th grade 2/3 of both girls and boys are interested in science. Tech may be the T in STEM, but they aren’t the same (neither is science and STEM, which the article seems to confuse). Whatever general trends there are that discourage women from going into STEM careers seem to be greatly amplified in tech (and relatively lower in science and medicine). I’m all for “plugging leaks”, so to speak, but I’m unconvinced that Calc I is some kind of critical barrier. Subjective notions like “confidence” are notoriously hard to measure, anyway; the stereotypical boy is prone to exaggeration and might overstate his real self-confidence, even on a survey. Confidence-building measures might help boys and girls equally, still leaving a gap. Leaving gender aside, my experience is that the best techies are self-motivated tinkerers. School was a help, but mostly to round out the education. There was no need for educators to encourage interest in programming or whatever since the interested kids were already doing it on their own. Maybe young girls need higher exposure to tech-related stuff, like computers, electronics kits, etc. There could very well be gender bias in this regard. My friends with kids say that they try, but the girls just aren’t as interested in that kind of stuff. I don’t have an answer there. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/19 "2017-08-08T11:30:24Z")
I have no idea what the culture is like inside the tech field but this entire episode leads me to believe it’s every bit as male dominated, if not borderline chauvinistic, as Ellen Pao and other women have been saying. And I’m not normally one who just accepts charges of bias at face value - I usually wanna see proof. But it just struck me that a Google employee (presumably a pretty sharp individual) somehow thought that it was within the boundaries of normal office discourse to share a rant that was predictably not well received by at least half of its recipients. Moreover, apparently he had has supporters. I can’t imagine some Wall Street executive doing something like this and expecting to open some sort of dialog on the subjects presented therein. It strikes me as real insularity and blindness to the very issues about which he was writing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/20 "2017-08-08T12:08:12Z")
Just to clarify, the manifesto was apparently posted on an internal message board that is commonly used by employees to express personal opinions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055.md?page=2)