# Google Fires Author of Divisive Memo on Gender Differences **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055 "2017-08-08T03:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/321 "2017-08-15T06:29:39Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Wouldn’t it be awesome if the programmer’s name became a term for a type of loser like Quisling’s did? The name of the programmer is James Damore. It’d be hysterical if henceforth a damore is someone who makes himself unemployable for life by joining a fascist movement the week before in commits a terror attack. He did not join a fascist movement. That is a complete fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/322 "2017-08-15T10:32:12Z")
Nor did he even express views that one could call hateful. Damore is more likely to become an example of companies enforcing a certain worldview, something which our descendants will probably laugh at us for. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/323 "2017-08-15T11:58:24Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Stefan Molyneux, and Jordan B. Peterson are not Nazis, not anything close. Neither is Milo. All that article says is that Damore used a photographer who has photographed alleged Nazis, and who photographed Damore for free. If a landscaper who has landscaped for Nazis offers to mow your lawn for free and you accept, does that make you a Nazi? They all promote the Nazi view on women - that they should be excluded from positions of authority, that they are biologically unfit for higher learning, and should be kept in the home with the children. Nazis are terrible on a wide range of topics and opinions. (Well, maybe not the photographer. I don’t know what his project is about.) **adaher** - that’s the hateful view which Damore expressed. You seem a little unclear about that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/324 "2017-08-15T12:31:15Z")
It’s hateful to be opposed to groupthink? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/325 "2017-08-15T15:49:59Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > They all promote the Nazi view on women - that they should be excluded from positions of authority, that they are biologically unfit for higher learning, and should be kept in the home with the children. Nazis are terrible on a wide range of topics and opinions. > > (Well, maybe not the photographer. I don’t know what his project is about.) > **adaher** - that’s the hateful view which Damore expressed. You seem a little unclear about that. Damore never expressed any of that. If what he said was so awful then why the need to lie about it and make up stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/326 "2017-08-15T16:14:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nor did he even express views that one could call hateful. Damore is more likely to become an example of companies enforcing a certain worldview, something which our descendants will probably laugh at us for. You think our descendants will laugh at us for subscribing in the world view that woman can and should contribute at all levels of society because they have much to offer? If they laugh it’s going to be at yokels like Damore… and you. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/327 "2017-08-15T16:35:04Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Damore never expressed any of that. If what he said was so awful then why the need to lie about it and make up stuff? I’m not lying. What Damore said was that science has proven that women are biologically less interested in technical fields then men, due to prenatal testosterone exposure, and that this biological disinterest is equivalent to a biological inability. Damore concluded that social expectations don’t influence women’s ability to be leaders or pursue technical fields as much as their biological difference from men, and that Google was hurting itself by trying to promote women into roles that they are not capable of performing, due to their biology. You don’t have to take my word that this what Damore is claiming. Here’s how Wired sees it for example. > [@Wired](#): > > The core arguments run to this tune: Men and women have psychological differences that are a result of their underlying biology. Those differences make them differently suited to and interested in the work that is core to Google. Yet Google as a company is trying to create a technical, engineering, and leadership workforce with greater numbers of women than these differences can sustain, and it’s hurting the company. You can try to explain how this is different from the Nazi belief that women are only suited for [Kinder, Küche, Kirche](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche) - but honestly, I doubt anyone would fall for it. Damore’s science is shit, by the way. You can read the whole memo by him here - [https://www.recode.net/2017/8/5/16102476/google-diversity-vp-employee-memo](https://www.recode.net/2017/8/5/16102476/google-diversity-vp-employee-memo) and several critiques from actual scientists here [https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore](https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore) Here - > **[The Actual Science of James Damore’s Google Memo](https://www.wired.com/story/the-pernicious-science-of-james-damores-google-memo/)** > > The science of sex differences is still very much in play. Ultimately, there’s no way to divorce Damore’s shitty science and shittier attitudes from all the previous thousands of years of sexist notions about women and their supposed inability to perform in leadership or intellectual roles. There’s also a clear line between the shitty science and beliefs of the Nazi’s to Damore’s sexism. It’s just tarted up with new buzzwords. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/328 "2017-08-15T18:09:19Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > You think our descendants will laugh at us for subscribing in the world view that woman can and should contribute at all levels of society because they have much to offer? > > If they laugh it’s going to be at yokels like Damore… and you. No, our descendants will laugh at us for being uptight and driving from polite society anyone who expresses a view different from the herd. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/329 "2017-08-15T18:11:19Z")
Being wrong doesn’t mean you simply “have a different view”. Flat-earthers have a different view, too. That’s the excuse of people who’ve been shown it, who know it, but can’t yet force themselves to act like it. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/330 "2017-08-15T18:20:36Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > You can try to explain how this is different from the Nazi belief that women are only suited for [Kinder, Küche, Kirche](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche) - but honestly, I doubt anyone would fall for it. Because there’s absolutely no day light between Women are only good for kids, cooking, and church, and the idea that on average Women are less likely to be programmers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/331 "2017-08-15T18:22:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Being wrong doesn’t mean you simply “have a different view”. Flat-earthers have a different view, too. > > That’s the excuse of people who’ve been shown it, who know it, but can’t yet force themselves to act like it. Is it sexist against men to suggest that men don’t want to enter certain fields? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/332 "2017-08-15T19:06:54Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Because there’s absolutely no day light between Women are only good for kids, cooking, and church, and the idea that on average Women are less likely to be programmers. The issue isn’t whether on average women are less likely to be programmers (that’s a simple matter of counting, and…yes, yes, they are). The issue is about whether or not on average women are less _able_ to be programmers. The current science does not support that position. And even if it did, the next step would “to what degree?” and “are these differences important?,” not the wholesale abandonment of the effort to increase diversity in a very non-diverse field. (Of course, none of these are the real question, which is: If someone publicly perform acts that are an embarrassment to their employer, can they get out of being fired by claiming “help, help, I’m being oppressed!” and not seeing the irony of their position? Current science says “no” and “yes,” respectively.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/333 "2017-08-15T19:16:41Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > If someone publicly perform acts that are an embarrassment to their employer, can they get out of being fired by claiming “help, help, I’m being oppressed!” and not seeing the irony of their position? Current science says “no” and “yes,” respectively.) “Help, help, I’m being oppressed! Come and see the irony inherent in the position!” ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/334 "2017-08-15T19:33:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Is it sexist against men to suggest that men don’t want to enter certain fields? You do understand “don’t want to” isn’t the same as “are biologically unsuited for,” right? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/335 "2017-08-15T19:37:44Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > You do understand “don’t want to” isn’t the same as “are biologically unsuited for,” right? He didn’t claim women were biologically unsuited for Google jobs. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/336 "2017-08-15T20:58:05Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > The issue isn’t whether on average women are less likely to be programmers (that’s a simple matter of counting, and…yes, yes, they are). The issue is about whether or not on average women are less _able_ to be programmers. The current science does not support that position. And even if it did, the next step would “to what degree?” and “are these differences important?,” not the wholesale abandonment of the effort to increase diversity in a very non-diverse field. The specific point I was responding to was that this guy’s argument was the equivalent of saying women are only good for church, cooking, and kids. Even with your more accurate take on his argument there’s still a giant chasm between the two positions. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/337 "2017-08-16T00:25:24Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > They all promote the Nazi view on women - that they should be excluded from positions of authority, that they are biologically unfit for higher learning, and should be kept in the home with the children. Nazis are terrible on a wide range of topics and opinions. > > (Well, maybe not the photographer. I don’t know what his project is about.) > **adaher** - that’s the hateful view which Damore expressed. You seem a little unclear about that. I have never heard Milo or Jordan B Peterson say anything remotely like that. Molyneux is some sort of libertarian (or “anarcho-capitalist”) from what I understand so I can’t imagine him saying that. Opposing gender quotas does not mean women should not be allowed to work. Incidentally, _everybody_ has this view (opposing gender quotas) regarding men. Feminists (who are supposedly working for “equality”) don’t believe there should be gender quotas requiring 50% of nurses, teachers, fashion models, or biologists to be men. Nor does anyone support quotas to make women have 50% of _bad_ jobs such as sewer maintenance. Feminists want women to have 50% of the best jobs regardless of whether they are interested or qualified, while letting men continue to suffer and die in the worst jobs. And anyway, there is nothing particularly “Nazi” about believing women should be housewives. This was the traditional belief in many different societies for thousands of years, including traditional Christian, Muslim and Jewish societies. You could just as easily argue Damore is a “secret evil Muslim” based on your specious line of reasoning. Or we could argue that anyone who supports public schools is a communist who wants to kill 50 million people, since communists did that and had public schools. It’s a preposterous argument. This is literal Godwinning of the argument. You take 3 people who have very different political views, and you call them all Nazis simply because they disagree with you on with the quasi-Marxist feminist concept of gender quotas and affirmative action in comfortable, high-paying jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/338 "2017-08-16T01:44:45Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Feminists want women to have 50% of the best jobs regardless of whether they are interested or qualified, while letting men continue to suffer and die in the worst jobs. This is absurd. Have you ever met a feminist? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/339 "2017-08-16T01:45:35Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > This is absurd. Have you ever met a feminist? No one here but us chickens. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055/340 "2017-08-16T01:51:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He didn’t claim women were biologically unsuited for Google jobs. And they say Fake News and a Post Truth environment is the fault of the Right… :dubious: The people that want to burn Damore at the stake clearly didn’t read what he actually wrote or chose to believe something else than what was actually stated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-fires-author-of-divisive-memo-on-gender-differences/793055.md?page=18)