# Google maps sued for drowning death **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720 "2023-09-26T12:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/181 "2023-09-28T16:17:52Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Now that we know that Google Maps will occasionally direct you into a creek, does that make any rethink your practices WRT such apps? No - why would it? As mentioned above, I am looking where I am going (map apps don’t warn you about children running into the steet, deer crossing the road, cops laying in wait to give you a ticket etc…), and can do a better job of that if I have clear directions from a navigation app rather than notes scribbled on a napkin or half-remembered verbal directions. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/182 "2023-09-28T16:25:18Z")
Cool. Just wondered. Not worth asking the person whose house you were in, who hosted your kid’s b-day party, and who you just spent time with cleaning up after the party, whether there was anything you ought to know about getting out of their subdivision and back to the main road? Me, I think tech is great for any number of things. But when the opportunity presents itself to ask a simple question of a real human with likely direct knowledge, I’ll likely continue to do so. Whether or not I choose to subsequently consult tech. (Not really relevant to anything, but I’m curious about the manner of death - drowning. I know “creek” can describe a wide variety of bodies of water, but it would have to be a pretty big creek to submerge a Jeep. I think the car fell about 20’. Has nothing to do with the driver being negligent, but I wonder if he was knocked unconscious and/or if the car flipped, causing him to drown.) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/183 "2023-09-28T16:25:34Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Glad to here you agree that the driver shares SOME responsibility. Tho we likely would differ as to the percentage, my sole point was that he was SOMEWHAT at fault. A number of years ago, the GPS I had at that time directed me to turn left. When I did so, I realized that I was turning onto a one way street. Unfortunately a cruiser that happened to see me realized it also, so on came the dome lights. When I explained what happened, he was less peeved at me for what he at first thought was an intentional act on my part. Nevertheless, he informed me that, no matter what a GPS may say or, for that matter, a passenger in your car, the operator of a motor vehicle is always responsible for the decision and, subsequently, the action taken. He let me off with a warning, but he could have ticketed me. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/184 "2023-09-28T16:31:29Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Now that we know that Google Maps will occasionally direct you into a creek, does that make any rethink your practices WRT such apps? Either more likely to ask a human with recent firsthand knowledge or feel like you have to be more vigilant in some situations? > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Not worth asking the person whose house you were in, who hosted your kid’s b-day party, and who you just spent time with cleaning up after the party, whether there was anything you ought to know about getting out of their subdivision and back to the main road? You just won’t give it a rest, will you? Look, you do you. However, you are in no position to judge what strategies make ME a safer driver. I am, and I assure you, I fully use those strategies. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/185 "2023-09-28T16:40:17Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > I know, some of you will say “But _I_ would never do that. I would use due caution and be aware of my surroundings at all times.” No. You are a mere human just like the rest of us, and your brain takes the same sort of shortcuts everyone else’s brain does. You’re not conscious of it, but you do it. Your point is well made. We cannot infer that this driver was _necessarily_ inattentive or imprudent based solely on the outcome, as though this outcome would be impossible for a responsible driver. But we can’t assume the opposite either. Although we’re all susceptible to the same cognitive illusions, it still obviously _matters_ how attentive we are. The driver may have contributed by inattentive and irresponsible driving, he may not. I think we just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/186 "2023-09-28T16:46:57Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > You just won’t give it a rest, will you? Look, you do you. Hey - and you do you as well. So long as we both stay out of the creek, that’s fine. (Always looking for an opportunity to share some good music - [Billy Strings - Meet Me at the Creek](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEzWuT1RyQk). Meet me at the creek, grab a beer and tap your feet - indeed! :D) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/187 "2023-09-28T16:51:46Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Now that we know that Google Maps will occasionally direct you into a creek, does that make any rethink your practices WRT such apps? Either more likely to ask a human with recent firsthand knowledge or feel like you have to be more vigilant in some situations? I’ve heard stories since the beginning about GPS dumping cars where they don’t belong. It does not make me rethink my practices with GPS, no. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/188 "2023-09-28T16:55:23Z")
Mistakes happen. The driver drove off the broken bridge by mistake. I mean, that is my best assumption. Its easy to look at some incident where the mistake has a serious outcome and just think that it’s a mistake you would never make yourself, because you would just do X. But nobody is immune to mistakes. Nobody is so immaculately careful that they never make mistakes, in fact I’d say anyone who believes they are immune to mistakes is probably more at risk of them, because they believe something that is simply not reality. Sure, being careful reduces risk, but it doesn’t reduce it to zero. Hindsight can lead people to make really smug judgments. I published a video in which I was walking on grass and I tripped and fell when my foot went into a rabbit hole that was completely concealed by long grass. You couldn’t see it and you cannot see it in the FPV footage, but I still got people telling me I was careless, they wouldn’t have tripped, they would have been more alert and in one case, that it wouldn’t have happened if I had probed the ground ahead of every footstep with a stick (technically true, but who does that? Nobody, but people who had the footage of the mistake step served up to them just imagined a clever way that someone _could have_ avoided it) (I fell flat onto soft ground BTW. It was not an injurious event BTW. The worst outcome was grass stains on my jeans) Its easy to say you would have avoided a mistake that has been made obvious to you, but can anyone here honestly tell me they have never once in their life made a mistake? Why didn’t you avoid that one? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/189 "2023-09-28T17:01:42Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > that it wouldn’t have happened if I had probed the ground ahead of every footstep with a stick (technically true, but who does that? Nobody, but people who had the footage of the mistake step served up to them just imagined a clever way that someone _could have_ avoided it) The Adventurer’s Guild strongly denounces this statement and reminds all adventurers that poking the floor, walls, and ceiling ahead with a 10 foot pole is _always_ recommended. Remember: only _you_ can prevent maulings by mimics, trappers, cloakers, ropers, and scarves enchanted to strangle you. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/190 "2023-09-28T17:03:58Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Not worth asking the person whose house you were in, who hosted your kid’s b-day party, and who you just spent time with cleaning up after the party, whether there was anything you ought to know about getting out of their subdivision and back to the main road? I’m not going to say it’s not worth asking - but I probably wouldn’t think to ask. Because to the extent I thought about it , I’d probably assume the person told me about anything I needed to know that they knew about. Just like people normally tell me that a street they know I will need to use to get to their house is closed for road work. And if they don’t know I will need that road, they probably won’t tell me about the bridge or road work even if I ask. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/191 "2023-09-28T17:34:25Z")
I haven’t checked yet, but I wonder how many of the comments under that Mentour Pilot video are: “They just should/shouldnt have…” “I would have just…” ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/192 "2023-09-28T17:53:08Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > A number of years ago, the GPS I had at that time directed me to turn left. When I did so, I realized that I was turning onto a one way street. I made that mistake a few years ago when I _wasn’t_ using my GPS. I looked at my motel’s location on Google Maps, and told myself I didn’t need GPS to find my way there. All I needed to do was exit Highway 1 in Santa Cruz, follow the signs to the Boardwalk, and then my motel was one block over. So I did that, got to an area I recognized (I’d been there before, but it was a long time ago), and thought “Ah, I know where I am; the motel is that way!” Except the street the motel was on was one way, and I was approaching from the wrong direction. But I was so focused on finding the motel I didn’t notice the signs. After driving the wrong way down the one way street for a short distance I realized something looked wrong, pulled over, made a U-turn after oncoming traffic had passed, and drove around the block to get there the right way. Actually, I bet if I had been using GPS it probably would have directed be to drive around the block to begin with, and I wouldn’t have made that error. > [@Riemann](#): > > But we can’t assume the opposite either. Although we’re all susceptible to the same cognitive illusions, it still obviously _matters_ how attentive we are. The driver may have contributed by inattentive and irresponsible driving, he may not. I think we just don’t know. I agree, it’s impossible to know whether or not the driver was inattentive (unless there’s a record that he was texting at the time or something like that). But some people seem to be arguing that the fact the the driver was following GPS directions means he must have been being inattentive, which isn’t necessarily true either. If anything the GPS probably did contribute to some confirmation bias that the road was passable. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/193 "2023-09-28T18:14:55Z")
While I wish @Dinsdale could be more kind about the way he expresses his opinions, he’s not entirely wrong about GPS. I don’t like it either, but I had to find out if there was any evidence that GPS makes you a worse driver. And yes, there seems to be [evidence of that](https://www.idrivesafely.com/defensive-driving/trending/gps-distracting-you-while-driving). One AAA study found that using satnav is approximately as dangerous as texting while driving. People who use voice directions as opposed to a visual map fare better as they are not taking their eyes off the road. Then there’s the notion of turning off one’s brain. Well over time GPS users are (probably) strengthening the part of the brain that follows directions while weakening the part of the brain that understands spatial navigation (the hippocampus.) > **[Is GPS ruining our ability to navigate for ourselves?](https://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9242049/gps-maps-navigation)** > > Why mindlessly following automated directions could be a problem. My personal opinion is that in this case, on a dark and rainy night with a bridge out, this guy probably would have drove into the creek whether he was using GPS or not. You just can’t see very well in those conditions, and by the time he could see anything it would probably be too late to stop. Based on what I have learned, I plan to change my GPS behavior. Activate voice control and turn off the visuals and try in that way. And look at where I’m going on a map before I go there. And maybe, Og willing, eventually learn how to get places without any help. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to get to a point where I never use GPS but I think I can take steps to decrease its use. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/194 "2023-09-28T18:29:52Z")
I rarely use GPS when driving. Actually, not sure I ever have. Instead, if I don’t know where I’m going, and don’t figure I can figure it out while driving, I prefer to look at a map before I get in the car to get an idea of where my destination is with relation to whatever I’m aware of. If I need any specific info such as exit number or tricky turns, I jot them down on a piece of paper. Not necessarily better or worse than what anyone else does, but works for me. Occasionally when my wife is driving, she’ll have GPS on her phone. We both dislike the spoken directions, so she invariably asks me to give directions from her phone. Drives me crazy when the map starts spinning and zooming. But that’s just me. Could probably figure out how to stop that, but I don’t care enough about the program and don’t use it frequently enough to bother with getting into the settings. Recently I was amused as my wife slowed as we approached a controlled intersection, and the GPS said “turn in 10 feet.” I thought it terribly helpful, as I was just about to encourage my wife to hop the curb and drive across the empty field before the intersection! 😉 Didn’t test it to see if it kept adjusting down to single digit feet and/or inches… I can understand they have to program it to a certain degree of accuracy, but the idea that that info would be useful to anyone amused me. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/195 "2023-09-28T18:30:30Z")
I am 100% not going to say that GPS is always safe - but I am going to say that a fair comparison would be to what people did pre GPS, Pre GPS no one was entering their destination or looking up restaurants while driving - but I’m not at all sure that looking at the GPS map is different from looking at a paper map / written directions, or that suddenly turning in response to GOS voice directions is different from doing it in response to directions from a passenger. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/196 "2023-09-28T18:36:02Z")
I guess I should admit my bias - while growing up, my dad worked for Rand McNally. So maps (and books) were always a kinda big deal in our household. I’ve long been interested in the history of maps, navigation, tracking, as well the benefits to increasing your awareness of your surroundings. So, yeah, I’ve read quite a bit suggesting there are mental benefits to be derived navigating by oneself. But - of course - all you GPS users are accomplishing fantastic mental tasks while freeing up your grey matter from such mundane tasks! 😉 Like I said, just acknowledging a personal bias. BTW - Rand McNally’s decision that GS was just a fad that wouldn’t last likely ranks up there with the all-time industrial boners! ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/197 "2023-09-28T18:37:06Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > People who use voice directions as opposed to a visual map fare better as they are not taking their eyes off the road. That makes sense. I always use voice directions - looking at the map does not seem nearly as safe to me. ETA: Looking at the article, it does NOT show any direct evidence that GPS is “ruining” our brains - it does _speculate_ that certain skills may be atrophying. But it’s not like any scientific study has been carried out. In addition, no doubt our collective abilities to make soap and candles at home, ride horses, sharpen spears, and hunt wild game have all atrophied. I’m sure my brain looks different from that of Og the Caveman, who had all sorts of abilities that are lost to me. I’m willing to make the needed trade-offs. In any case, I think the most useful study would be on whether the increase in GPS usage has led to a decrease in vehicle crashes. I don’t know if such studies exist or how robust they are. Maybe I’ll see what I can find. E (again) TA: A quick Google search suggests that studies tend to demonstrate that use of a GPS increases the number of traffic accidents. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/198 "2023-09-28T18:40:50Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > ETA: But of course pilots are humans, too, and even trained pilots can fall into the trap of “we see what we expect to see, rather than what’s actually there.” If you’ve got another spare ~30 minutes, [this video from Mentour Pilot illustrates an instance where that happened.](https://youtu.be/KTICjQxiDms?si=-ZedKtrgtfNxZDVn/) Cool! I’ve flown into and out of Presque Isle airport. And survived. Of course, it was in the summer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/199 "2023-09-28T18:41:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > In this scenario, I think the driver has maybe 5-10% responsibility for the incident,. … I would put the vast majority of the blame on whoever was supposed to maintain that road and bridge. And whatever little blame is left to go around, if any, on Google. Yeah. at most 10% driver, 10% Google, the rest the dudes responsible for maintaining that bridge/road. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Glad to here you agree that the driver shares SOME responsibility. Sure _some_. **But let’s not get into victim blaming.** > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Then there’s the notion of turning off one’s brain. Well over time GPS users are (probably) strengthening the part of the brain that follows directions while weakening the part of the brain that understands spatial navigation (the hippocampus.) Before setting off on a trip, and setting my Waze or Google, I look at maps first. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720/200 "2023-09-28T18:45:15Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > One AAA study found that using satnav is approximately as dangerous as texting while driving. I think “using” satnav is a misleading summary of that study as stated, and I’m not sure what it _does_ say is justified. It says that _programming_ a GPS or while driving is dangerous. Of course, but you can now do that through voice commands with your eyes on the road. And the only thing it claims is dangerous while _following_ GPS directions is making radical late maneuvers to make a turn in response to voice commands. None of their claims in that study tell you what the control is. Dangerous relative to what? Are they assuming that people who fumble with paper maps always pull of the road to do so? Following GPS voice commands while keeping your eyes on the road is surely much safer than looking at a paper map while driving. And with a GPS I’m much _less_ inclined to make a radical last minute maneuver to make a turn, because I know that the GPS will immediately just tell me the easiest way to get back on my route. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-maps-sued-for-drowning-death/990720.md?page=11)