# Google throws down the gauntlet on Chinese censorship **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743 "2010-01-13T02:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/21 "2010-01-13T17:46:46Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Note: At the request of the OP, I merged a GD thread with one originally started in MPSIMS, which is reading as the current OP. If there’s a little funkiness in the flow of the thread (e.g., **Oakminster** ’s pair of virtually identical posts, which were originally in two different threads), that’s what happened. > > twickster, MPSIMS moderator Does that mean we have to dance and sing that “We want the funk” song? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/22 "2010-01-13T17:53:25Z")
Really, sure they could, on their main page where they have had pictures and stuff before like on holidays. They could make fun of each leader on his birthday and so on. Use that main page as more of a social statement, like a wall can be. Celebrate each anniversary of protests in China, things like that, with pictures of the leader looking stupid. Create dis-respect. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/23 "2010-01-13T18:22:18Z")
What, exactly, do you believe would be achieved by drawing horns and tails on Chinese government officials? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/24 "2010-01-13T19:02:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What, exactly, do you believe would be achieved by drawing horns and tails on Chinese government officials? More, perhaps, in China than elsewhere. Historically, Chinese governments purport to base their legitimacy on their morality and the public’s esteem thereof, and in any rebellion, propaganda is half the battle. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/25 "2010-01-13T19:22:21Z")
Would you change your opinion on _any_ subject because of a cartoon on the Google homepage? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/26 "2010-01-13T19:44:38Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > It seems to me that it was done because the cost, (working with China’s government and getting extra hack attacks in order to operate there), was more than they believed they would be returned in the long term. That’s the only way the equation works and still makes sense to me as a business decision. Turning off the filtering seems like they are broadcasting that they aren’t interested in being there in the future. Or also as a last-ditch measure to win against Baidu. Maybe they figure that perhaps being uncensored they’ll be able to win back the larger share of users. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/27 "2010-01-13T19:45:09Z")
Really, Because in that culture respect is much more important than it is here, and so use that as a weapon against them. An easy weapon too, and it can even be fun, hold contests for the best depiction of China leaders stopping dissent, then publish them all over time even. Now Google need not even do any work to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/28 "2010-01-13T19:49:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Would you change your opinion on _any_ subject because of a cartoon on the Google homepage? No, but if I was a Chinese person able to access uncensored reports of what happened in Tianamen Square for the first time, I might very well change my opinion about my government. For that matter, if I saw, for the first time, that image of the one guy staring down the column of tanks, I might have some questions about what really happened there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/29 "2010-01-13T19:51:26Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, but if I was a Chinese person able to access uncensored reports of what happened in Tianamen Square for the first time, I might very well change my opinion about my government. For that matter, if I saw, for the first time, that image of the one guy staring down the column of tanks, I might have some questions about what really happened there. What has that got to do with drawing funny pictures of Chinese leaders? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/30 "2010-01-13T20:02:45Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Really, Because in that culture respect is much more important than it is here, and so use that as a weapon against them. An easy weapon too, and it can even be fun, hold contests for the best depiction of China leaders stopping dissent, then publish them all over time even. Now Google need not even do any work to do it. Sounds like a great way to get the common chinese man to think that Google is a source of disrespectful lies, and thus to dismiss it entirely. The _rational_ ‘no respect’ route is to stick to plain unvarnished facts and unfiltered information. The lack of filtering is sufficiently disrespectful of the government’s will without turning Google into a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/31 "2010-01-13T20:06:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What has that got to do with drawing funny pictures of Chinese leaders? Even mere cartoons could lead to people wanting to know why the leaders were drawn in a particular way. It would probably be most effective if the cartoons were drawn by someone knowledgeable about Chinese culture and mythology. Say a current leader depicted as some easily recognized figure widely known to have been an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/32 "2010-01-13T20:08:17Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Really, Because in that culture respect is much more important than it is here, and so use that as a weapon against them. An easy weapon too, and it can even be fun, hold contests for the best depiction of China leaders stopping dissent, then publish them all over time even. Now Google need not even do any work to do it. Do actions like what you propose influence the way _you_ think about politics and culture? On second thought, I’m not sure I want you to answer that. ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/33 "2010-01-13T21:16:16Z")
Disappointing. I come to this forum for intelligent posts, but people are seriously arguing Google should draw mean pictures of Chinese leaders on their home page. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/34 "2010-01-13T21:23:49Z")
Next thing you know, people will be crudely photoshopping giant cats in Tiananmen Square. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/35 "2010-01-13T21:33:14Z")
I can haz self-determination? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/36 "2010-01-13T21:47:28Z")
Tanks haz a flavor. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/37 "2010-01-13T21:52:34Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Tanks haz a flavor. I’m in ur tanks, oppressing ur peaceful protestors. ALTERNATIVELY: Teh tears of democratic activists - they haz a flavor. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/38 "2010-01-13T22:03:55Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, but if I was a Chinese person able to access uncensored reports of what happened in Tianamen Square for the first time, I might very well change my opinion about my government. For that matter, if I saw, for the first time, that image of the one guy staring down the column of tanks, I might have some questions about what really happened there. Nah, most people there know that something nasty happened at Tienanmen. What they disagree with you on is “was it justified to keep the peace,” and “so what do we do about it.” To which the answer is “Maybe, maybe not” and “Keep calm and carry on.” Interpretation and context matters. I mean, what did you think when you found out about the atrocities committed by the Patriots against Loyalists, something US history textbooks skim over? “Damn, they’ve been lying to us all along,” or “Meh, a long time ago and maybe they had it coming?” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/39 "2010-01-13T22:08:42Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Interpretation and context matters. I mean, what did you think when you found out about the atrocities committed by the Patriots against Loyalists, something US history textbooks skim over? “Damn, they’ve been lying to us all along,” or “Meh, a long time ago and maybe they had it coming?” Frankly, I was more concerned about the atrocities the Patriots committed against the Jets in Spygate. But point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743/40 "2010-01-13T22:23:13Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Google has not taken this quietly. Their blog post says they’re going to start talking to the PRC government about operating [google.cn](http://google.cn) without censoring the content, legally. In the meantime, they seem to have cried havoc and turned off the censorship regardless of the law: [http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&source=hp&q=tianamen%20square&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi](http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&source=hp&q=tianamen%20square&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) That’s what shows up when you use “Tianamen square”. But when you use “Tiana **n** men square”, not so much… (?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/google-throws-down-the-gauntlet-on-chinese-censorship/524743.md?page=3)