# GOP establishment fears the monster they created... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337 "2013-02-04T20:50:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/121 "2013-02-11T00:34:00Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Sounds like Libertarian non-sense to me. Please, elaborate on the “sound economic principles” of the Tea Party. > > The government is a mere tool that provides society with structure and order. It is up to the people to guide the tool so as to use it correctly. The failure of its correct functioning is a direct result of the ignorance of the average voter. They favor low taxes and lower government spending. Also, their rhetoric supports sound money and is strongly anti-corporatist. Government is a tool for the subjugation of one class (middle class, poor) for the benefit of another (politically connected business). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/122 "2013-02-11T00:41:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Clinton couldn’t have blocked the repeal of Glass-Steagal even if he wanted to. Gramm-Leach-Biley was passed with far more than the supermajority required to override a veto. I don’t think Clinton ever expressed the least misgivings about signing it into law. It fit perfectly with his triangulation, it made him look like he was trying to get regulation of the backs of businesses … giant businesses, which would eventually become “too big to fail” businesses … but still, it fit the sound byte, and that was what mattered to Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/123 "2013-02-11T00:44:06Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They favor low taxes and lower government spending. Also, their rhetoric supports sound money and is strongly anti-corporatist. > > Government is a tool for the subjugation of one class (middle class, poor) for the benefit of another (politically connected business). Government has in the past been very effective at preventing the worst excesses of unfettered capitalism against the lower class and the poor. You seem to have this naive belief that the marketplace will somehow protect the average guy. Basically, government is the average guy’s only protection against corporate rule. Dump that and we’re all no better than slaves to corporate masters. Government and corporate power are two behemoths, each potentially ruthless and uncaring as the other. The average guy’s only chance is to play one against the other. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/124 "2013-02-11T00:56:20Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They favor low taxes and lower government spending. Also, their rhetoric supports sound money and is strongly anti-corporatist. > > Government is a tool for the subjugation of one class (middle class, poor) for the benefit of another (politically connected business). Yep, government with its bill of rights, due process, electoral college, providing for the general welfare, E.P.A., Social Security, Medicare/Caid, police, military, fire dept., education, etc ad nauseum is just so damn oppressive! The cause of this income inequality is cause of hovernment regulation. If there werent so msny damn taxes, people epuld voluntarily give money to chariyy. Yep we should give the wealthy corporations free reign. What could go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/125 "2013-02-11T01:06:34Z")
I mean it’s not Walmarts fault that over half their workforce makes below $10 an hour without benefits. Or that a majority of their products are produced by exploited 3rd world labor. It’s the governments taxes and regulations thats the problem. If the CEO’s were able to make trillions, instead of just billions, then they would be able to spare some money for their workforce and charity organizations. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/126 "2013-02-11T03:01:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The elite of both parties are the ones pushing the corporatist agenda that causes income inequality. Why do you think they’re called the establishment? The democrats have been nearly 100% taken over by establishment corporatists (bailouts, obamacare, militarism all over). The Tea party is founded on sound economic principles that could return economic power back to the individual, but they are crazy because they are attempting to outlaw abortion. > > The crux of the argument is that tea party critics believe that giving more power to the federal government gives more power to the people. This is outright silliness. Why? Giving more power to the federal government has, on several occasions past, and not even beginning with the New Deal, given more power to the people, and served an **anti** -elitist agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/127 "2013-02-11T03:15:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > This old chestnut again? Exploiting like how? Extorting billions of dollars from them to prop up the government’s favored firms? No that couldn’t happen on the free market. > > You’re going to have to come up with something that shows tea party policies would allow billionaires to extort billions of dollars from the people, because its well known that establishment policies do just that. I talked about this in the Stupid Republican Idea of the Day thread, but I think it bears repeating. One word: ALEC. From [here](http://www.desmogblog.com/alec-model-bill-behind-push-require-climate-denial-instruction-schools). Please take a look and see for yourself how this organization is working to hijack education through the legislature to promote climate change denial in schools (just one in a long list of anti-democratic, pro-corporation bills they promote). When people doubt climate change, they are less likely to worry about things like the massive effort we will need to undertake to switch to more sustainable forms of power, which the oil and gas and coal guys don’t like very much because it will cost them billions of dollars if the general population does not remain rubes, regardless of what an informed public would enact via their government though their unmolested self-interest. ALEC is funded by the same people who created/fund the Tea Party, the Koch brothers foremost among them. I’m sorry, but if you fall for any Tea Party rhetoric I am afraid you have been duped by their skill at ‘messaging’ and are missing out on what a sucker you are. Don’t take that the wrong way; I respectfully hope for all suckers to escape that status in order to reduce the suffering in the world, among other things. ---
**Author:** ![juniorhoss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@juniorhoss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/juniorhoss)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/128 "2013-02-11T03:37:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I’m pretty well up on the extreme positions fostered in the Republican Party by the Tea Party. But, despite attending Occupy events, I seem to have missed precisely which radical ass crazy positions the Occupy movement foisted upon the grave, grey ranks of Democrat leadership. > > Perhaps you’ll help me out with that, seeing as you are so much better informed? No, no I didn’t mean it “that way”. I meant, the “extreme” is usually defined as such BY THE OTHER SIDE. the Tea Party thinks they are “it” but are viewed as extremists by the Left. Occupy similarly viewed as “extreme” by the right. (Other side) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/129 "2013-02-11T03:49:52Z")
> [@juniorhoss](#): > > No, no I didn’t mean it “that way”. I meant, the “extreme” is usually defined as such BY THE OTHER SIDE. the Tea Party thinks they are “it” but are viewed as extremists by the Left. > > Occupy similarly viewed as “extreme” by the right. (Other side) Yes, but the point is, the Tea Party has the Republican Party by the nuts. Occupy hasn’t even gotten within grasping distance of the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/130 "2013-02-11T04:12:42Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > How much longer is the republican party going to put up with the tea party pretending to be a branch of the republican party, when really all they are doing is using them? When are GOP leadership going to come out and call the Tea Party out for what they are, and promise never to send another dollar to a candidate who claims to be part of the “Tea Party.” > > It’s embarrassing and I cannot fathom to understand _why_ the mainstream republican establishment continues to allow it. See the [Pew Political Typology](http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/) – at present, the GOP has two reliable bases – “Staunch Conservatives” (think Tea Partiers) and “Main Street Republicans” (think your grandfather’s GOP, or RINOs if you prefer). It can’t please both, and it can’t win without both, and, as we’ve seen the past three years, the SC/TP won’t just go along and play nice any more, but will actually mount primary-challenges against insufficiently hard-RW Pubs. And, one not-so-reliable base – the “Libertarians.” Most of these are moderate libertarians, not the radical sort you’ll find in the LP – still, they likely will be displeased by most things that please the SC/TP, and vice-versa. Ever since the 1970s, Republican success has been based on burying the differences between factions in a “no enemies to the right” coalition. It now appears that coalition is no longer viable. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/131 "2013-02-11T04:16:23Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > On economic issues, there absolutely is NOT a lesser of two evils, they’re both the same. On social issues, of COURSE there is a difference. The thing is, the economic inequality in this country has become so great that it dwarfs all other problems. People who are concerned with gay marriage, abortion, immigration, etc., are, to use a gaming analogy, fighting with minor opponents while a giant boss wreaks havoc as you fight his low level minions, totally ignored. > > The leftiest of voters may not be all THAT lefty … they are just people who have figured out something you have not. Quite true. However: > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Really – where’s Occupy now? Still out in the fringe and fading as far as MSM coverage is concerned. That is also true. Wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/132 "2013-02-11T04:19:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Roman Catholic is a PLUS? How? How is being part of the religion of anti-abortion, anti-contraception, sexism-enabling, child molester protectors a PLUS? Latino vote? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/133 "2013-02-11T04:21:15Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > With money as with few other things, quantity has a quality all its own. Of course, one of those few other things is votes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/134 "2013-02-11T04:24:20Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The Tea party is founded on sound economic principles that could return economic power back to the individual . . . How? I have never seen a single slogan on a Tea Party rally-sign or a single plank in a [Tea Party organization’s platform](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_party_movement#Contract_from_America) that reflects sound economic principles or could “return” economic power to the individual. “Taxed Enough Already!” does neither. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/135 "2013-02-11T04:26:07Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You’re going to have to come up with something that shows tea party policies would allow billionaires to extort billions of dollars from the people . . . [Here ya go.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tea_party_movement#Astroturf_organisation) > [@](#): > > **Astroturf organisation** > > Despite claims that it is a “grassroots” organisation, the Tea Party has merely become another patsy for the US’s health care insurance companies to fight healthcare reform. The “Tea Party Caucus” received donations of $2.7 million from the health care sector, which also contributed towards a $25 million “war chest” to be used by the Tea Party to fight the elections.[17][18] > > One insurer has gone as far as to urge employees to attend anti-healthcare Tea Party rallies.[19][20] > > The two main 'Bagger astroturf groups are FreedomWorks headed by Dick Armey and Americans for Prosperity. Both were spun off from the Koch-bankrolled Citizens for a Sound Economy. The Kochs denied any connection to the Tea Parties. A few months after that statement, a video leaked of Teabag state chapter leaders reporting directly to David Koch himself at the Americans for Prosperity mothership.[21] (But they’re grassroots, honest!) > > Sadly, most Tea Party members are too full of righteous indignation and are too stupid to realise they are merely pawns in a gambit by their corporate backers to ensure they retain their profits… at the cost of the very people who are cheering them on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/136 "2013-02-11T04:30:22Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They favor low taxes and lower government spending. Those are “sound economic principles” only in certain times and circumstances, which we are not living in now. (Hint: Keynes has never yet been discredited, though some RWs seem to take it as an article of faith that he was, somehow, at some point. The rising school in economics today is [Post-Keynesianism,](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Post-Keynesian_economics) which mostly but not entirely means getting back to Keynesian basics.) > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Also, their rhetoric supports sound money . . . How so? Examples? > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > . . . and is strongly anti-corporatist. How so? Examples? > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Government is a tool for the subjugation of one class (middle class, poor) for the benefit of another (politically connected business). No, that would be capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/137 "2013-02-11T04:34:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Government and corporate power are two behemoths, each potentially ruthless and uncaring as the other. The average guy’s only chance is to play one against the other. The difference is that the average guy has a vote in the one and not in the other. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/138 "2013-02-11T05:24:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Roman Catholic is a PLUS? How? Catholics make up about a quarter of the population of the US, they’re historically a Democratic constituency, and politically, they tend to match the general popuation. Catholics are pretty much as mainstream as you get, and if you win the Catholic vote. Put another way, Catholics voted for the winning presidential candidate in every election since 1948 except for 1952, 1968, 1988, and 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/139 "2013-02-11T05:49:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Quite true. However: > > That is also true. Wonder why? I dunno, BrainGlutton, if you have an idea long these lines, how about just saying what it might be? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337/140 "2013-02-11T05:52:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Latino vote? Latino votes reliably Democratic, however, I don’t think it’s for religious reasons. If Roman Catholicism issues were a guiding light for the Latino vote, they would tend to vote Republican as the Republicans are all anti-abortion, anti-contraception, sexist slut shamers like the Catholic Church is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-establishment-fears-the-monster-they-created/649337.md?page=8)