# GOP / movement conservatives: Bad decisions are a business model **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819 "2014-11-17T00:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/1 "2014-11-17T00:35:49Z")
There’s always going to be a problem getting “conservative” politicians in the USA to do the smart or socially responsible thing. I don’t know what the ratio is of principled true believers to corrupt pols to principled true believers in avid corruption. But it seems like the conservative movement exists in part to sell access to constituencies that go against conventional wisdom, science, popular opinion, or anything else the Democrats are committed to. If it’s a good idea, some great number of right-wingers will come out against it, because if it’s a good idea the centrists and progressives will probably be for it, and the conservatives have a business model based on being different from whatever the Democrats do. Is that too cynical? I’m from the central US. I’ve personally experienced a long-term warming trend in my region. But politicians sit in climate-controlled rooms and engage in denial. We have a track record for trying to boost the economy by pushing on the string of upper marginal tax rates–an obvious crackpot idea that had an enormous amount of money going into media to trumpet it. Shockingly :rolleyes: it didn’t work. But it made money for publishers and pols who swore it would. We have politicians who want to gut the EPA, perhaps not because they either desire or have forgotten \*rivers on fire \*and songbird population collapses, but because they gain power and influence by being that guy, who says that thing. So if you’re hoping the GOP will at some point come out in favor of, say, Net Neutrality, I have to expect that most of them won’t. Too much profit, for pol and pundit, in running contrary to the best information and common sense, and playing to the dissenter, the crackpot billionaire, and the briber. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/2 "2014-11-17T02:42:25Z")
Things went really bad when the U.S. corporate business model started to place too much emphasis on short-term profit. This was the sin of the corporate raids and forced takeovers of the 1980s and forward. There have been companies that have eliminated their entire Research and Development divisions…because those can only produce long-term promises of profit, but are costly and not profitable now. The political model has become the same: they can countenance the destruction of the Middle Class, which produced the greatest national wealth in history, because it results in short-term windfalls for the controlling class right now. We’re eating our seed grain. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/3 "2014-11-17T02:58:13Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > conventional wisdom, science, popular opinion, or anything else the Democrats are committed to. What, the Democrats are committed to “conventional wisdom, science, and popular opinion”? Since when? If the Democrats were committed to popular opinion, they would support construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline, would be trying to either abolish or seriously alter Obamacare, etc… If Democrats were committed to science, they would cease claiming that 25% of female college students have been raped, or that women are paid only 77% of what men are paid for the same work, etc… If Democrats were committed to common sense, well, they’d do a lot of things differently. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/4 "2014-11-17T06:15:37Z")
So you start with this point which in summary is “it’s hard to get them to do what I agree is smart of right.” > [@foolsguinea](#): > > There’s always going to be a problem getting “conservative” politicians in the USA to do the smart or socially responsible thing. …and build to this question. > [@](#): > > Is that too cynical? Short answer, yes. There are People who identify as Democrats that are non-scientific wingnuts. I’ve seen bad economics used as arguments by Progressives. Unpopular arguments could and should be made by both sides, IMO. Otherwise we governed by opinion poll and have a tyranny of the masses (and an especially short term focused, knee-jerk tyranny at that IMO) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/5 "2014-11-17T14:28:18Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > What, the Democrats are committed to “conventional wisdom, science, and popular opinion”? Since when? > > If the Democrats were committed to popular opinion, they would support construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline, would be trying to either abolish or seriously alter Obamacare, etc… > > If Democrats were committed to science, they would cease claiming that 25% of female college students have been raped, or that women are paid only 77% of what men are paid for the same work, etc… > > If Democrats were committed to common sense, well, they’d do a lot of things differently. The public opinion happens to be wrong about the pipeline and about Obamacare. The pipeline isn’t going to lower gasoline prices, it’s going to put dirtier oil in more markets. It’s going to pump that oil through the US so the Canadians can sell it to more world markets. Obamacare has been subject to relentless lies by Republicans for 5 1/2 years now, it just shows you can buy popular opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/6 "2014-11-17T14:53:43Z")
If Democrats were comitted to science, they would going full-steam ahead on nuclear energy and free trade and tort reform. If they were committed to popular opinion, they would support the death penalty. Etc. This notion that one side is all noble and wise and the other is evil and wrong is pretty naive. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/7 "2014-11-17T15:03:36Z")
And of course, guess who gets to define “socially responsible?” I think think it’s socially irresponsible to allow the killing of unborn children. Shall we add that to the list of social irresponsibility? Who gets to author that list? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/8 "2014-11-17T16:07:43Z")
If the opinions of the smartest and hippest people on the planet are any indication, ain’t gonna be you. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/9 "2014-11-17T16:22:40Z")
Are there going to be Scotsman in the decision making process whose opinions count for anything? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/10 "2014-11-17T16:33:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The public opinion happens to be wrong about the pipeline and about Obamacare. The pipeline isn’t going to lower gasoline prices, it’s going to put dirtier oil in more markets. It’s going to pump that oil through the US so the Canadians can sell it to more world markets. Obamacare has been subject to relentless lies by Republicans for 5 1/2 years now, it just shows you can buy popular opinion. I pointed before that if the pipeline is approved the failure would be to approve it with no counterbalance like the stalled renewables bills in congress. As for Obamacare, there is indeed disapproval at 53% but the polls do tell us that even with all the falsehoods and opinion bought _ **Most Opponents Want Politicians to Make Law Work** _ > **[ACA at Age 4: More Disapproval than Approval](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2014/03/20/aca-at-age-4-more-disapproval-than-approval/)** > > Survey Report As the four-year anniversary of the Affordable Care Act approaches, the law remains unpopular with the public. Currently, 53% disapprove of ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/11 "2014-11-17T16:35:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Democrats were comitted to science, they would going **full-steam ahead on nuclear energy** \ Of everything you have ever said in political debates here since I have been a member, this is probably the one thing I agree with you on. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/12 "2014-11-17T16:37:49Z")
Still, “full steam” does strike one as a bit oddly worded, considering… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/13 "2014-11-17T16:51:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Democrats were comitted to science, they would going full-steam ahead on nuclear energy and free trade and tort reform. [Sesame Street]One of this things is not like the others[/SS]… In the pointed at legislation for alternative energy that has been stalled with no Republican support there is, besides solar wind and other renewal energy sources, also support for nuclear power. I have seen also a few Democrats against free trade but a lot of the agreements seen made by the Obama administration do counter that view. > **[China and US look to the future with IT trade agreement](https://www.ft.com/content/9a1804d6-6950-11e4-9eeb-00144feabdc0)** > > Deal cutting tariffs in hundreds of product categories ends 18-month stand-off So there is evidence that Nuclear and free trade are beneficial, and are followed by Democrats, there is very little to go for the tort reform. [http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/new-study-tort-reform-has-not-reduced-health-care-/nRpcp/](http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/new-study-tort-reform-has-not-reduced-health-care-/nRpcp/) > [@](#): > > A new study found no evidence that health care costs in Texas dipped after a 2003 constitutional amendment limited payouts in medical malpractice lawsuits, despite claims made to voters by some backers of tort reform. > > The researchers, who include University of Texas law professor Charles Silver, examined Medicare spending in Texas counties and saw no reduction in doctors’ fees for seniors and disabled patients between 2002 and 2009. A 2003 voter campaign in Texas, and some congressional backers of Texas-style tort reform in every state, however, argued that capping damage awards would not onlycurb malpractice lawsuits and insurance costs for doctors, it would lower costs for patients while boosting their access to physicians. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/14 "2014-11-17T17:15:00Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Of everything you have ever said in political debates here since I have been a member, this is probably the one thing I agree with you on. (bolding mine) The problem here is that a lot has changed, and unfortunately many Moderate Republicans and independents have not been informed properly of the kinds of Republicans they are electing. > **[Clean Energy Standard Act of 2012 Introduced - OurEnergyPolicy](https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/clean-energy-standard-act-of-2012-introduced/)** > > Senate Energy & Natural Resources Chairman Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) has introduced the Clean Energy Standard Act of 2012, which would require electric utilities to derive increasing percentages of their supply mix from low-CO2 sources. The bill would... > [@](#): > > Sources eligible under the legislation include: renewables, such as wind and solar, “qualified” renewable biomass and waste-to-energy, hydropower, natural gas, **and nuclear**. Facilities with CO2 capture and storage, and some combined heat and power facilities, are also eligible. The bill establishes a market-based credit trading scheme, within which utilities could purchase compliance credits from other utilities. > [@](#): > > **The Act was introduced with no Republican support.** Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), the top Republican on the Energy & Natural Resources Committee has said that she will “only get behind such a standard if it replaces federal climate regulations.” [The Hill] ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/15 "2014-11-17T17:23:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Democrats were comitted to science, they would going full-steam ahead on nuclear energy and free trade and tort reform. If they were committed to popular opinion, they would support the death penalty. Etc. > > This notion that one side is all noble and wise and the other is evil and wrong is pretty naive. > > Regards, > Shodan Show us the evidence that tort reform is supported by science. Disregards, BLD ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/16 "2014-11-17T17:26:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [Sesame Street]One of this things is not like the others[/SS]… Not very much. > [@](#): > > In the pointed at legislation for alternative energy that has been stalled with no Republican support there is, besides solar wind and other renewal energy sources, also support for nuclear power. Not in much of a practical way - witness the endless stalling on Yucca Mountain by the egregious Reid, and finally ended by the equally egregious Obama. > [@](#): > > I have seen also a few Democrats against free trade but a lot of the agreements seen made by the Obama administration do counter that view. [More than a few](http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303819704579320971106367770). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/17 "2014-11-17T17:48:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > More than a few What you mistake as opposition to free trade is, in fact, opposition to specific elements of the trade deal, such as IP rights for 100-150 years after the death of the IP holder. There is also opposition to the secrecy in which the pact is being drafted. Democrats aren’t, as far as I’m aware, opposed to free trade when done in a responsible manner (e.g. No outsourcing to countries with no worker or environmental regulations). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/18 "2014-11-17T17:58:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Democrats were comitted to science, they would going full-steam ahead on nuclear energy and **free trade and tort reform.** What have those to do with science? Even if you count economics as a science, I doubt you’ll find unanimity among economists on either. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/19 "2014-11-17T18:21:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Show us the evidence that tort reform is supported by science. You need science to understand that we badly need tort reform? When a guy can sue the MTA and win _ **because he got injured when he tried to kill himself by jumping in front of a subway train** _, it’s pretty obvious we need tort reform. And no, it’s not just that one example, it’s throughout the entire tort system, that one example is just one of the most compelling/well known. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819/20 "2014-11-17T18:32:50Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > You need science to understand that we badly need tort reform? When a guy can sue the MTA and win _ **because he got injured when he tried to kill himself by jumping in front of a subway train** _, it’s pretty obvious we need tort reform. > > And no, it’s not just that one example, it’s throughout the entire tort system, that one example is just one of the most compelling/well known. Still not a science-based position. If a lawsuit is frivolous, the courts can and do kick them out. The poster child for this is usually the McDonald’s coffee spill, which was a legitimate lawsuit with a just outcome. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-movement-conservatives-bad-decisions-are-a-business-model/704819.md?page=2)