# GOP still trending to win Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426 "2014-08-13T10:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/821 "2014-10-17T03:27:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Recognizing that is not the same as amnesty for criminals. Oh, and it should be noted that we are talking about amnesty for criminals. What’s the penalty for using a false identity to get work in this country? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/822 "2014-10-17T04:14:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Oh, and it should be noted that we are talking about amnesty for criminals. What’s the penalty for using a false identity to get work in this country? Having to do the work? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/823 "2014-10-17T04:57:28Z")
Hahaha. That’s funny. It’s actually a felony: > [@](#): > > Misusing a Social Security number > > The misuse of a Social Security number can result in a maximum penalty of five years of federal incarceration and a fine of $250,000. > False Documents for Employment > > If you use a fake Social Security number is used to gain employment, you may face a maximum penalty of 10 years without parole in federal prison as well as a fine of $250,000. Making a false statement on an I-9 Employment Eligibility Verification Form can result in a maximum penalty of five years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. > Fraud > > Using a false Social Security number with intent to defraud the United States carries the maximum penalty of 15 years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. Possession of false U.S. documents carries the same maximum penalty and fine. > False Claim of Resident Alien Status > > Using a fake Social Security number to illegally gain resident alien status carries a maximum penalty of five years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. > Selling fake Social Security cards > > Selling fake Social Security cards carries the maximum penalty of 10 years in federal prison and a fine of $250,000. > Identity Theft > > Using a fake Social Security number to steal a person’s identity is a violation of the Identity Theft and Assumption Deterrence Act. Identity theft carries a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison, a fine and possible forfeiture of personal property if it was used to commit the offense. > **[Answerbag Resource Busy -- Start a conversation. Have some fun.](http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1989638)** > > Ask questions on any topic, get real answers from real people. Have a question? Ask it. Know an answer? Share it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/824 "2014-10-17T06:43:23Z")
Not incidentally, contributions to the trust fund by illegal immigrants net the Social Security Administration and US citizens billions. Money comes in and it never comes back in the form of benefits. “…Stephen C. Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration and someone who enjoys bipartisan support for his straightforwardness, said that by 2007, the Social Security trust fund had received a net benefit of somewhere between $120 billion and $240 billion from unauthorized immigrants.” [Cite](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/02/AR2010090202673.html). On behalf of present and future retired Americans, I extend my thanks to those who work here illegally and pay their social security taxes. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/825 "2014-10-17T07:12:34Z")
They’ll be working legally soon enough. But we’re still going to have to work out how they’ll account for their crimes before we go and extend citizenship to them. Because we’re talking about a group of people(working undocumented immigrants), 100% of whom are felons. and a lot of Americans who have committed lesser felonies are going to want to know why they don’t get an amnesty too. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/826 "2014-10-17T07:29:45Z")
In the vein of Wang’s post, Nate Silver points out that the polls might very well be skewed. It’s just impossible to know in advance who they are skewed in favor of: > **[The Polls Might Be Skewed Against Democrats — Or Republicans](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polls-might-be-skewed-against-democrats-or-republicans/)** > > This year’s Senate election is close. Republicans have the clearer path to a majority, but it’s a treacherous one. Republicans are favored in Iowa and Colorado,… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/827 "2014-10-17T07:32:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They’ll be working legally soon enough. But we’re still going to have to work out how they’ll account for their crimes before we go and extend citizenship to them. $240 billion+ makes for a pretty big account. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/828 "2014-10-17T10:17:18Z")
Cool, so we mark you down as against giving them credit for what they paid in over the years so they can collect SS benefits. You’re right, that would be an adequate fine. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/829 "2014-10-17T11:43:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They’ll be working legally soon enough. But we’re still going to have to work out how they’ll account for their crimes before we go and extend citizenship to them. Because we’re talking about a group of people(working undocumented immigrants), 100% of whom are felons. and a lot of Americans who have committed lesser felonies are going to want to know why they don’t get an amnesty too. Crossing the border to feed your family and escape the drug wars in your own country brought on by America’s appetite for drugs and fetish for guns, then doing jobs that Americans won’t do for wages they won’t accept and then paying in taxes with no prospect of benefits is a felony? If technically true, then we need more crime. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/830 "2014-10-17T12:02:39Z")
Or, we need to repeal the laws requiring documents for employment. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/831 "2014-10-17T13:41:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because I think they are more likely to work together if Congress isn’t divided. The Republicans and Democrats were just letting each others’ legislation die in the other chamber. Now legislation will actually reach the President’s desk You’re either evading the question or you \*truly \*don’t understand it. I was asking about purpose, not mechanics, hoping you had a higher purpose in mind for Republican control of both houses than “Yay Team!”. If all you can offer is that they’ll be able to get their next 50 bills to repeal Obamacare all the way to his desk for a veto, well, that says quite a bit. > [@](#): > > So if Obama does actually want to cut entitlements as part of a grand bargain to secure his legacy, then he doesn’t have to worry about Democratic legislators anymore. He does not want to, he’s offering to let the Republicans show they can be responsible too. What part of an alleged “grand bargain” would they follow up with in your hypothetical “Yay Team” Congress? > [@](#): > > We can also get real immigration reform done now. Not with a party controlling both houses that so badly needs nativism for its voter turnout. Tell us, what sort of bill have they come up with in the House? That’s right, nothing. They’ve talked about DREAM, but have done nothing, even knowing it would become law easily. Tell us why; you do know. I’m disappointed in your (lack of an) answer, but not at all surprised. Perhaps someday you might get the point that it’s about the country, its people, and the world, not simply opposition, and have an actual agenda in mind that actually makes things better for actual people. But that won’t be anytime soon for you, will it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/832 "2014-10-17T15:54:42Z")
Your argument is based on the assumption that the GOP won’t do anything. That argument is mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/833 "2014-10-17T16:21:47Z")
Then tell us what they will do, or even what you sincerely think they will do. You’ve been asked enough times. What is their agenda other than repealing Obamacare? What makes you want them to succeed, if in fact it’s something more meaningful than cheering for your team? And please don’t waste your own time as well as ours with the “replace it” lie they’re still telling you (but only because you’re still swallowing it). In what way or ways will your team make the country or the world a better place, doing a better job of it than the Democrats with all their faults? Enough stalling, please answer. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/834 "2014-10-17T16:25:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Your argument is based on the assumption that the GOP won’t do anything. That argument is mistaken. That’s not how I read **Elvis** ’s post at all. I think he wants to know what they will do (or what you believe they will do), and is looking for an answer more specific than “something”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/835 "2014-10-17T16:37:58Z")
That’s it, thanks. Here, I’ll add some more besides repealing Obamacare: [McConnell’s plans as prospective Majority Leader.](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/2014-election-mitch-mcconnells-barack-obama-confrontation-110154.html) > [@](#): > > The emerging strategy: Attach riders to spending bills that would limit Obama policies on everything from the environment to health care, consider using an arcane budget tactic to circumvent Democratic filibusters and force the president to “move to the center” if he wants to get any new legislation through Congress. > > In short, it’s a recipe for a confrontational end to the Obama presidency. > > “We’re going to pass spending bills, and they’re going to have a lot of restrictions on the activities of the bureaucracy,” McConnell said in an interview aboard his campaign bus traveling through Western Kentucky coal country. “That’s something he won’t like, but that will be done. I guarantee it.” So which of that do you find praiseworthy and would make the world a better place? Or is opposing Obama on anything and everything the end in itself for you? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/836 "2014-10-17T18:16:46Z")
It’s okay, take your time, get it right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/837 "2014-10-17T18:21:53Z")
Make up your mind, **Elvish** , which is it to be? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/838 "2014-10-18T00:13:17Z")
I said immigration. I said possibly entitlement reform. I’ve said before that they’ll help the President on the war if he’s committed to fighting it. Spending will be kept under control as it has been since 2011, only it’ll be easier should they win. I think they’ll actually try to be a lot more productive than the Democrats were from 2007-2008, when they did pretty much nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/839 "2014-10-18T00:29:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I said immigration. I said possibly entitlement reform. I’ve said before that they’ll help the President on the war if he’s committed to fighting it. Spending will be kept under control as it has been since 2011, only it’ll be easier should they win. The GOP versions of those things involve a fence, vouchers for Medicare, and boots on the ground respectively. They will make the world worse. The GOP stance on all those issues will damage real human beings and cause pain and suffering for no reason other than to appease the senile old Ghost 'o Reagan™. > [@](#): > > I think they’ll actually try to be a lot more productive than the Democrats were from 2007-2008, when they did pretty much nothing. If you cared, you might note that they got little done because they didn’t throw a two year tantrum and threaten to close down the government and harm the world economy like McConnell is threatening to do. It’s like you don’t even care that they are literally threatening to shatter the world economy that is only just coming out of the great recession. Doesn’t that bug you a little? That they’re holding a gun to your economy’s head and saying, “Do what we say, or I’ll fuck the world up for decades, hyuk hyuk.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/840 "2014-10-18T00:33:51Z")
I’ve also said that I don’t think they’ll do that. Much like the Democrats two years out from the 2008 election, they can win it all in the next election and won’t be interested in sabotaging themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=43)