# GOP still trending to win Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426 "2014-08-13T10:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/841 "2014-10-18T00:55:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ve also said that I don’t think they’ll do that. Much like the Democrats two years out from the 2008 election, they can win it all in the next election and won’t be interested in sabotaging themselves. If they’re attaching riders to spending bills that undercut fundamental laws and agencies, then we’re in a budget crisis and face shutdown. There is no two ways out of it, they’re acting like children. And for what? What are their policies, really? Cut taxes on the rich and large businesses, ignore global warming, put priests in charge of public school curricula, outlaw abortion wherever possible, fuck the EPA, fuck the FDA, fuck the regulators of Wall Street, fuck minimum wage, fuck the poor, slash food stamps, slash Medicare, slash Social Security, build more tanks, jets and aircraft carriers, though. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/842 "2014-10-18T02:10:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I said immigration. Despite the evidence all being to the contrary. > [@](#): > > I said possibly entitlement reform. With no more evidence, and even less specificity. > [@](#): > > I’ve said before that they’ll help the President on the war if he’s committed to fighting it. You know better than that. > [@](#): > > Spending will be kept under control as it has been since 2011, only it’ll be easier should they win. Spending on what? What do you both want cut and expect your team to keep cut? > [@](#): > > I think they’ll actually try to be a lot more productive than the Democrats were from 2007-2008, when they did pretty much nothing. They could hardly be less productive. The one thing they’ve shown themselves to want done is to repeal Obamacare (they don’t even mention replacing it anymore, but you do). That’s not on the list of things you want done and expect them to do, though. You’re not making a case that convinces even yourself that the team you root for deserves to win. Ir really is all about that for you and nothing more, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/843 "2014-10-18T03:06:13Z")
You can accuse me of being an optimist if you want, but I actually think they’ll do a good job, at least from my perspective, if they win. I’m not supporting them just to get them the bauble that is the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/844 "2014-10-18T04:56:24Z")
We’ve seen what your perspective is, that is what is worrying us. Your idea of a good job means more people do worse so a small number can do better. No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/845 "2014-10-18T05:00:49Z")
If you say so. The country did pretty well with Republicans controlling Congress from 1995-2000. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/846 "2014-10-18T05:45:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you say so. The country did pretty well with Republicans controlling Congress from 1995-2000. Yes, operating under budget rules passed in 1993 without a single Republican vote. Once they had the power to override it, they did, and deficits started climbing again. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/847 "2014-10-18T05:53:21Z")
True. Having control of all the branches corrupted them. But if I had to choose, I’d rather they had Congress than the Presidency, which means they kinda need Congress. The Democrats can have the Presidency. It’s all they care about anyway, seeing as how it’s the only office Democrats actually turn out to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/848 "2014-10-18T05:59:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True. Having control of all the branches corrupted them. Corrupted? Yeah, some outside force seduced them and planted the idea of tax cuts for millionaires in their heads. They just couldn’t help themselves and it’ll never happen again. Now pull the other one. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/849 "2014-10-18T06:02:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Democrats can have the Presidency. It’s all they care about anyway, seeing as how it’s the only office Democrats actually turn out to vote for. You mean like in 2012, when more people voted for Democratic Representatives than for Republican? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/850 "2014-10-18T15:33:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You can accuse me of being an optimist if you want, but I actually think they’ll do a good job, at least from my perspective, if they win. Yet you can’t provide any actual example of something with actual experiential support behind it that qualifies. You’ve been patiently and repeatedly asked for the actual reasoning and principles behind your cheerleading, some broader vision of why the nation and the world would be better off under Republican control. Those requests were under the generous assumption that there is some, out of the hope of fighting some ignorance here. But at some point, the lack of any substantive response can only be taken as evidence of lack of any substance. Can you understand that, at least? > [@](#): > > I’m not supporting them just to get them the bauble that is the Senate. A bauble? Now that they’re slipping away from you, those grapes are sour? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/851 "2014-10-18T15:37:05Z")
The money that the Republicans are refusing to spend will eventually have to be spent. It will simply cost us more to spend it, and will be less productive. First and foremost, infrastructure. Those bridges will not heal, we cannot carry them to Lourdes to pray for a miracle, they will have to be fixed. When the economy was in the shitter, we could have borrowed money more cheaply. Steel, concrete, and other vital stuff was cheaper, and we needed a way to hire people for needful work. We’re still going to have to, but now we’ll have to spend more to get less. Penny wise, pound foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/852 "2014-10-18T16:49:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The money that the Republicans are refusing to spend will eventually have to be spent. It will simply cost us more to spend it, and will be less productive. > > First and foremost, infrastructure. Those bridges will not heal, we cannot carry them to Lourdes to pray for a miracle, they will have to be fixed. When the economy was in the shitter, we could have borrowed money more cheaply. Steel, concrete, and other vital stuff was cheaper, and we needed a way to hire people for needful work. > > We’re still going to have to, but now we’ll have to spend more to get less. Penny wise, pound foolish. It hurts the most when you make that rare post with which I must agree. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/853 "2014-10-18T16:54:57Z")
…There was a king reigned in the East: There, when kings will sit to feast, They get their fill before they think With poisoned meat and poisoned drink. He gathered all that springs to birth From the many-venomed earth; First a little, thence to more, He sampled all her killing store; And easy, smiling, seasoned sound, Sate the king when healths went round. They put arsenic in his meat And stared aghast to watch him eat; They poured strychnine in his cup And shook to see him drink it up: They shook, they stared as white’s their shirt: Them it was their poison hurt. —I tell the tale that I heard told. Mithridates, he died old. A. E. Housman (1859–1936). _A Shropshire Lad._ TL,DR: You’ll get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/854 "2014-10-19T00:40:23Z")
Elucidator and BRicker, I agree on infrastructure, but the vast majority of spending isn’t infrastructure. If it’s so all-fired important, money can be moved from less essential things the government does into repairing bridges and highways. Another problem is that we’re talking about politicians here. It’s not that money hasn’t been available to repair our infrastructure, it’s that politicians like ribbon cutting ceremonies and the jobs provided by new projects. Maintaining the old stuff is boring and doesn’t do much to benefit politicians. It’s not a matter of “they have to spend the money eventually”, so much as “how will the money be raised?” Democrats approach the issue of new spending by simply raising revenues, and if the job doesn’t get done after a few years they raise more revenues, and if the job still isn’t done, they raise more revenues. Republicans, at least the competent ones, look for areas of the budget that shouldn’t be funded at all, or could be funded at much lower levels, to raise money. There is always waste in the budget, and I’m not talking about waste in the most literal sense, as in “money appropriated that disappears or is spent for dumb purposes”, but waste in that “does the government really need to do this?” So, how much money do we need properly repair and upgrade our infrastructure? Would $100 billion per year be enough? > **[Coburn: GAO report finds ‘mother lode of government waste’](https://thehill.com/policy/finance/84026-coburn-gao-report-finds-mother-lode-of-government-waste/)** > > Sen. Tom Coburn hailed a new report detailing wasteful spending he estimates could help save as much as $100 billion. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/855 "2014-10-19T01:42:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > money can be moved from less essential things the government does For example? > [@](#): > > into repairing bridges and highways. What other functions of government would you want more money spent on? It’s easy and even fun to simply whine that “the government spends too much money”, but it’s also pointless without specifics, including numbers. Is it simply the easy and fun part that you find so attractive? And does it happen when your guys get voted into power anyway? > [@](#): > > Republicans, at least the competent ones, look for areas of the budget that shouldn’t be funded at all, or could be funded at much lower levels, to raise money. There is always waste in the budget, and I’m not talking about waste in the most literal sense, as in “money appropriated that disappears or is spent for dumb purposes”, but waste in that “does the government really need to do this?” OK, the \*competent \*Republicans look for real, identifiable items to cut. Great. Who are these people, just a few names, and what have they found that can be cut? I’ll be disappointed, although not surprised, if the only thing you can list is Obamacare, which actually saves money. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/856 "2014-10-19T01:57:04Z")
Tom Coburn was a hero in that regard. It was he who ordered a GAO report asking about duplicate programs. It’s amazing that the majority of politicians aren’t curious about such things. John McCain has always been a great anti-pork crusader. As for what the government can spend less on, for starters, they can eliminate duplicate programs. They also need to hold spending increases to inflation+ population growth among all agencies. That’s what was done during the Clinton years and it worked out great. Budget discipline was entirely forgotten during the Bush years and the first two years of the Obama administration. Now it’s back, and hopefully it will be even better if the GOP has the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/857 "2014-10-19T02:05:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Tom Coburn was a hero in that regard. It was he who ordered a GAO report asking about duplicate programs. And what did he find? What legislation did he push to correct the problem? Or is asking someone else to go fishing for him enough to make him a “hero” in your eyes, as long as he’s a Republican? > [@](#): > > John McCain has always been a great anti-pork crusader. The jokes just keep coming, don’t they? > [@](#): > > As for what the government can spend less on, for starters, they can eliminate duplicate programs. For instance? > [@](#): > > They also need to hold spending increases to inflation+ population growth among all agencies. Even though the world keeps changing and needs keep evolving. Ri-i-i-ght. It’s bad enough for conservatives to inherently fear change, but denying it is going to happen anyway is beyond that. > [@](#): > > That’s what was done during the Clinton years and it worked out great. A fair(er) tax system had a lot \*more \*to do with it. > [@](#): > > Budget discipline was entirely forgotten during the Bush years and the first two years of the Obama administration. Now it’s back, and hopefully it will be even better if the GOP has the Senate. So you can’t actually name anything you think needs to be cut, just “everything”? That’s it? You claim to admire competence and responsibility in your politicians, but you have no fucking clue what those things even are, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/858 "2014-10-19T02:47:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The money that the Republicans are refusing to spend will eventually have to be spent. It will simply cost us more to spend it, and will be less productive. > > First and foremost, infrastructure. Those bridges will not heal, we cannot carry them to Lourdes to pray for a miracle, they will have to be fixed. When the economy was in the shitter, we could have borrowed money more cheaply. Steel, concrete, and other vital stuff was cheaper, and we needed a way to hire people for needful work. > > We’re still going to have to, but now we’ll have to spend more to get less. Penny wise, pound foolish. > [@Bricker](#): > > It hurts the most when you make that rare post with which I must agree. Don’t feel too bad Bricker, most or at least many 1950s - 1970s Republicans would have grasped that argument with ease. It was during the 1990s that Bill Clinton moved into the sound government part of the ideological map and the Republicans abandoned it. Not coincidentally, Republicans used to have a lock on the professional class. No longer and that group has been trending Democratic for decades. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/859 "2014-10-19T12:19:54Z")
Which is why it’s so essential to get them back. The Republican Party can’t survive unless it’s the party of good, competent government. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/860 "2014-10-19T12:38:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And what did he find? What legislation did he push to correct the problem? Or is asking someone else to go fishing for him enough to make him a “hero” in your eyes, as long as he’s a Republican? Coburn spent 20 years pushing legislation to cut wasteful spending. In regards to the duplicate programs: [http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/rightnow?ContentRecord\_id=dc0201a9-79bf-4da7-9c39-b9899d929251&ContentType\_id=b4672ca4-3752-49c3-bffc-fd099b51c966](http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/rightnow?ContentRecord_id=dc0201a9-79bf-4da7-9c39-b9899d929251&ContentType_id=b4672ca4-3752-49c3-bffc-fd099b51c966) > [@](#): > > The jokes just keep coming, don’t they? Now you’re just being ignorant. McCain’s history as an anti-pork crusader earned him the hatred of a lot of Republicans, especially Ted Stevens > [@](#): > > For instance? see the 364 programs at the above cite. > [@](#): > > Even though the world keeps changing and needs keep evolving. Ri-i-i-ght. It’s bad enough for conservatives to inherently fear change, but denying it is going to happen anyway is beyond that. the world keeps changing and needs keep evolving, but this does not mean that overall federal spending must always take an ever-increasing share of the economy. Obsolete programs can be eliminated. Such as: [http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/1997/05/top-10-obsolete-government-programs](http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/1997/05/top-10-obsolete-government-programs) > [@](#): > > A fair(er) tax system had a lot \*more \*to do with it. Nope. Revenue under Clinton rose from 17.4% to 20%. But spending fell from 22% to 18.5%. If spending had remained constant we would have averaged a deficit of 2% or so. If Clinton hadn’t raised taxes but still cut spending, then our deficit would have averaged about 1.5%. Spending restraint did more of the heavy lifting than revenue increases. And there has never been a path to budget balance that primarily relied on revenue increases. Our deficit is falling today primarily due to the fact that the budget hasn’t seen an overall increase since Republicans took over Congress. > **[2011 United States federal budget](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget)** > > The 2011 United States federal budget was the budget to fund government operations for the fiscal year 2011. The budget was the subject of a spending request by President Barack Obama. The actual appropriations for Fiscal Year 2011 had to be authorized by the Congress before they could take effect, according to the U.S. budget process. > No budget was passed by the September 30 deadline, and the government was funded by a series of seven continuing resolutions,which continued funding at or ne... > **[2014 United States federal budget](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_United_States_federal_budget)** > > The 2014 United States federal budget is the budget to fund government operations for the fiscal year (FY) 2014, which began on October 1, 2013 and ended on September 30, 2014. > President Obama submitted the FY2014 budget proposal on April 10, 2013, two months past the February 4 legal deadline due to negotiations over the United States fiscal cliff and implementation of the sequester cuts mandated by the Budget Control Act of 2011. The House of Representatives passed its proposal, H.Con.Res 2... Actually, spending has dropped by $100 billion. The President wants an increase of $400 billion in the 2015 budget. Ha ha ha. > [@](#): > > So you can’t actually name anything you think needs to be cut, just “everything”? That’s it? You claim to admire competence and responsibility in your politicians, but you have no fucking clue what those things even are, do you? Social Security and Medicare will have to be cut. Medicare already has been, and will be further. Social Security will see its CPI calculations changed to chained CPI. All domestic programs should be frozen at current levels, with increases only approved if inflation is significant or there is something specific they need to do which is an overwhelming need. All duplicative and obsolete programs should be eliminated immediately. All programs not absolutely necessary, such as arts funding, corporate welfare(like the Ex-Im bank), gone. The government has too many missions, and as this President has proven, it’s too much for it to handle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=44)