# GOP still trending to win Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426 "2014-08-13T10:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/81 "2014-08-15T02:10:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Or, “don’t pass it” or “pass it and poison the political atmosphere for decades to come”. As I said, mission accomplished. It’s not the Democrats that poisoned the atmosphere. Trying to govern and pass Democratic-supported legislation is not “poisoning the atmosphere”. It’s not like Democrats haven’t been campaigning on health care reform (and other legislation) for decades – why wouldn’t they try and pass it, once that they finally could? Shouting “you lie!” during State of the Union, declaring that the President has unAmerican values, and the Senate Minority leader declaring that his top priority is ensuring the President doesn’t get re-elected is “poisoning the atmosphere”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/82 "2014-08-15T02:16:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not the Democrats that poisoned the atmosphere. Trying to govern and pass Democratic-supported legislation is not “poisoning the atmosphere”. It’s not like Democrats haven’t been campaigning on health care reform (and other legislation) for decades – why wouldn’t they try and pass it, once that they finally could? > > Shouting “you lie!” during State of the Union, declaring that the President has unAmerican values, and the Senate Minority leader declaring that his top priority is ensuring the President doesn’t get re-elected is “poisoning the atmosphere”. I wouldn’t expect you to agree. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/83 "2014-08-15T02:20:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I wouldn’t expect you to agree. Forgive me, I thought you wanted an interaction – an exchange of ideas between folks who disagree. If you just wanted to preach, perhaps there are better places for that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/84 "2014-08-15T02:25:15Z")
The first thing that poisoned the atmosphere was Obama supposedly asking for Republican ideas, but after getting them, implying that maybe he might use them but just remember, “I won.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/85 "2014-08-15T02:27:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Forgive me, I thought you wanted an interaction – an exchange of ideas between folks who disagree. If you just wanted to preach, perhaps there are better places for that. Certain things are axiomatic. And I didn’t start this “interaction”. All I said was that ramming things through a 51% vote does nothing to alleviate the poisonous hyper-partisanship. If you disagree with that, go ahead and argue. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/86 "2014-08-15T02:39:07Z")
Another thing that doesn’t help is including Republican ideas without asking if they are actually Republican ideas and then slamming Republicans for not voting for the things you never consulted them on. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/87 "2014-08-15T11:13:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Certain things are axiomatic. And I didn’t start this “interaction”. All I said was that ramming things through a 51% vote does nothing to alleviate the poisonous hyper-partisanship. If you disagree with that, go ahead and argue. That’s not what you said, because I agree with that. I agree that “ramming things through a 51% vote does nothing to alleviate the poisonous hyper-partisanship”. “Ramming things through a 51% vote” does actually get bills passed, though, and in some cases is the only way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/88 "2014-08-15T11:15:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The first thing that poisoned the atmosphere was Obama supposedly asking for Republican ideas, but after getting them, implying that maybe he might use them but just remember, “I won.” I guess I should have remembered that, to you, the Republicans are tiny delicate flowers that should be handled with the utmost kindness, respect, and affection. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/89 "2014-08-15T11:17:44Z")
True, but there are political consequences for doing so. Be honest now. If the GOP had gone ahead and passed SS privatization in 2005, would or would not Democrats be campaigning like crazy to repeal it and sending repeal bills to Bush’s desk starting in 2007? And wouldn’t Democratic partisans hate it intensely because it was a strictly GOP bill? And wouldn’t many independents be sour on the idea because it was rammed through by one party? For better or worse, this country likes bipartisanship. Partisan bills tend to be unpopular. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/90 "2014-08-15T11:18:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I guess I should have remembered that, to you, the Republicans are tiny delicate flowers that should be handled with the utmost kindness, respect, and affection. Which is just another way of covering up for the fact that Obama sucks at diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/91 "2014-08-15T11:28:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is just another way of covering up for the fact that Obama sucks at diplomacy. Wrong. He reached out to the Republicans for several years. And I wish he hadn’t – the modern Republican party, and their goals, are _bad for Americans and for America_. “Real” diplomacy and negotiation (as you’re describing) with the modern Republican party would also be _bad for Americans and for America_. There’s no compromise that the modern Republican party would allow that would not be _bad for Americans and for America_. Not engaging in “diplomacy” with the modern Republican party is far better than the alternative. Opinion, of course. Just as your (mostly fact-free and due to extreme personal dislike) criticisms of Obama’s competence are only your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/92 "2014-08-15T13:38:01Z")
What difference does it make? The Republicans weren’t allowing anything to pass the Senate anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/93 "2014-08-15T14:02:18Z")
Having this discussion while we all pretend the GOP is a reasonable party that honestly wants to make things better and truly has the best interests of America as their first priority is a huge pointless waste of time. In theory i agree with both Terr and Adaher, and if there was a real opposition party i would want things to work the same way they do. Currently that is not the case and expecting anyone to treat the Republicans like they have anything valid to add would be the biggest mistake any Democrat could make. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/94 "2014-08-15T15:50:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is just another way of covering up for the fact that Obama sucks at diplomacy. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/95 "2014-08-15T16:16:16Z")
It’s kinda sad that being anti-insanity makes one look pro-Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/96 "2014-08-15T17:04:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True, but there are political consequences for doing so. Be honest now. If the GOP had gone ahead and passed SS privatization in 2005, would or would not Democrats be campaigning like crazy to repeal it and sending repeal bills to Bush’s desk starting in 2007? And wouldn’t Democratic partisans hate it intensely because it was a strictly GOP bill? And wouldn’t many independents be sour on the idea because it was rammed through by one party? > > For better or worse, this country likes bipartisanship. Partisan bills tend to be unpopular. No, they would have hated because it was a terrible idea. It’s also not similar in that the Democrats never proposed privatizing SS. The Republicans have proposed much of what got passed and then ran away from it when a Democratic President supported it. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/97 "2014-08-15T20:50:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You don’t negotiate with terrorists. I was going to ask, “How do you negotiate with rabid dogs?”, but your response was better. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/98 "2014-08-15T23:17:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Wrong. He reached out to the Republicans for several years. And I wish he hadn’t – the modern Republican party, and their goals, are _bad for Americans and for America_. “Real” diplomacy and negotiation (as you’re describing) with the modern Republican party would also be _bad for Americans and for America_. There’s no compromise that the modern Republican party would allow that would not be _bad for Americans and for America_. He made a show of doing so, or he did so ineffectively. He hasn’t made much progress in diplomacy in the world either, although at least with foreigners he refrains from attacking them while he negotiates with them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/99 "2014-08-15T23:19:44Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > No, they would have hated because it was a terrible idea. It’s also not similar in that the Democrats never proposed privatizing SS. The Republicans have proposed much of what got passed and then ran away from it when a Democratic President supported it. No, the Democrats just failed Diplomacy 101. You don’t just take ideas mentioned by the other side before, put it in a treaty, and then demand the other side support it because sometime in the past they supported some of the ideas in it before. You also don’t lecture them on what a compromise it is and how unreasonable they are for not supporting it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/100 "2014-08-15T23:47:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > the modern Republican party, and their goals, are _bad for Americans and for America_. “Real” diplomacy and negotiation (as you’re describing) with the modern Republican party would also be _bad for Americans and for America_. There’s no compromise that the modern Republican party would allow that would not be _bad for Americans and for America_. That’s exactly what many Republicans would say, word for word, about Democrats, substituting “Democrat” for “Republican” in your paragraph. In other words, you sound no different than the opposing side. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=6)