# GOP still trending to win Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426 "2014-08-13T10:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1221 "2014-11-04T17:08:02Z")
I tend to look at their record and positions they held on the issues before running for an office that required them to “evolve”. Anyway, I voted, and there was no one there, so I have to assume that every candidate I voted for will win 1-0. Seriously though, that’s some shitty turnout in a very close governors’ race that people are passionate about. In 2012 I waited about 30 minutes to vote, going in at the same time I did today. Today, there was me and poll workers. That’s it. This is a heavily Democratic district, BTW, where both the House candidate and state House candidate are Democrats running unopposed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1222 "2014-11-04T17:20:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When can we rely on those lies, precisely? For example, as we discussed the ACA here, much was made of the President’s “If you like your health care plan, you can keep it.” Opponents of the ACA were reminded of this guarantee. > > At what point during that debate could I have said, “Well, he’s lying?” You could have said it at any point, but he was not lying for most people’s situations – most people can keep their plans. For the small number of plans that were not in compliant with the ACA, he was either lying or incorrect in good faith. Either option deserves criticism, but it’s not a particularly important thing in the scheme of things – the ACA is doing a lot of good and very little bad, according to the health and cost statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1223 "2014-11-04T17:25:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You could have said it at any point, but he was not lying for most people’s situations – most people can keep their plans. For the small number of plans that were not in compliant with the ACA, he was either lying or incorrect in good faith. Either option deserves criticism, but it’s not a particularly important thing in the scheme of things – the ACA is doing a lot of good and very little bad, according to the health and cost statistics. No, no – you misunderstand my question. In the instance about, you readily concede that the Democratic politicians were lying. When, in debate about political proposals, may I also level that accusation? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1224 "2014-11-04T17:26:22Z")
The argument made in support of what happened was that a lot of people had crappy insurance anyway, and that it was absolutely necessary for the goals of ACA that they lose that insurance and replace it with better insurance. That argument would have had more merit had it been made BEFORE it happened, rather than used as an ad hoc, politically convenient explanation of reality. The media reports about people going to lose their health insurance already had noted that it was mainly going to be because plans didn’t meet the standards. Instead of confirming this, ACA supporters continued to deny, deny, deny. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1225 "2014-11-04T17:34:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, no – you misunderstand my question. > > In the instance about, you readily concede that the Democratic politicians were lying. > > When, in debate about political proposals, may I also level that accusation? You can level it any time you want. You’ll very often be challenged on it, but go ahead and accuse away. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1226 "2014-11-04T17:56:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You can level it any time you want. You’ll very often be challenged on it, but go ahead and accuse away. Correct: I’ll be challenged on it. Someone will ask for a cite. What can I provide? You see what I’m saying? Here, you readily concede they’re lying. But if you didn’t concede that, what remedy would I have? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1227 "2014-11-04T18:07:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Correct: I’ll be challenged on it. Someone will ask for a cite. What can I provide? The only way to prove someone is lying is to prove that they knew one thing and said another – and it’s very, very hard to prove what someone knows in their mind. What are you suggesting? > [@](#): > > You see what I’m saying? Here, you readily concede they’re lying. But if you didn’t concede that, what remedy would I have? Ritual suicide? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1228 "2014-11-04T18:12:34Z")
It’s less about punishing politicians than showing healthy skepticism towards their claims. The “You can keep your insurance if you like it” was obviously not true and ACA supporters were wrong to defend the law from arguments that it was true. We can’t rationally debate whether a proposed law is a good idea or not if one side is going out of their way to hide its downsides until it’s too late to get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1229 "2014-11-04T18:15:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Correct: I’ll be challenged on it. Someone will ask for a cite. What can I provide? Whatever proof you have that they are lying? I’m not sure what more you want. Accusations of lying without proof should be worth what, in your mind? > [@Bricker](#): > > You see what I’m saying? Here, you readily concede they’re lying. But if you didn’t concede that, what remedy would I have? What remedy do you think you’re entitled to? Politicians lie sometimes. People accuse politicians of lying sometimes. That’s just politics, right? I guess your remedy is to advocate for whichever politicians you judge as liars to be voted out of office. Work for the campaign of whoever is opposing them maybe? You would use political remedies to address political issues you have with politicians. What else are you getting at? I’m not sure what response you are looking for here. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1230 "2014-11-04T18:17:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We can’t rationally debate whether a proposed law is a good idea or not if one side is going out of their way to hide its downsides until it’s too late to get rid of it. Sounds like you’re describing voter ID laws here. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1231 "2014-11-04T18:18:00Z")
I think what he’s looking for isn’t much to ask: for SDMB liberals to not carry water for politicians who they know are making claims that are untrue. And not wait until after the fact to make up a new argument. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1232 "2014-11-04T18:22:14Z")
Well, if he has some issues with liberal hypocrisy, he should have made them known! How are we to know what is bothering him if he never brings it up? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1233 "2014-11-04T18:23:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think what he’s looking for isn’t much to ask: for SDMB liberals to not carry water for politicians who they know are making claims that are untrue. And not wait until after the fact to make up a new argument. **Bricker** is a big boy. He can speak for himself. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1234 "2014-11-04T18:30:27Z")
Decision America. A choice between two parties which, for most intents and purposes, are as Right-leaning as each other, save for a few outliers. I can hardly talk though, we have the same deal in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1235 "2014-11-04T18:30:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I tend to look at their record and positions they held on the issues before running for an office that required them to “evolve”. > > Anyway, I voted, and there was no one there, so I have to assume that every candidate I voted for will win 1-0. > > Seriously though, that’s some shitty turnout in a very close governors’ race that people are passionate about. In 2012 I waited about 30 minutes to vote, going in at the same time I did today. Today, there was me and poll workers. That’s it. This is a heavily Democratic district, BTW, where both the House candidate and state House candidate are Democrats running unopposed. Couldn’t the fact that the Dems are running unopposed be a factor in the low turnout? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1236 "2014-11-04T18:41:22Z")
Maybe. But the governors’ race is the big one here. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1237 "2014-11-04T18:42:08Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Decision America. A choice between two parties which, for most intents and purposes, are as Right-leaning as each other, save for a few outliers. I can hardly talk though, we have the same deal in the UK. Both sides aren’t the same. And there will be real human suffering that will be the result of the likely GOP turnover of the Senate today. Clucking about how both sides are equal is lazy. It’s a way to skip learning about issues. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1238 "2014-11-04T18:43:14Z")
Real human suffering? You mean from the 1% cut in funding a GOP Senate is likely to impose on social programs that have seen their budgets doubled since 2000? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1239 "2014-11-04T18:51:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Real human suffering? You mean from the 1% cut in funding a GOP Senate is likely to impose on social programs that have seen their budgets doubled since 2000? Do you think the GOP will try to eliminate the Department of Education if they gain control of the Senate? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1240 "2014-11-04T18:55:05Z")
Probably not, but if they did, it wouldn’t cause an increase in human suffering. For that to happen, the Dept. of Education would have had to have improved educational outcomes. Since the creation did not accomplish that, it’s doubtful that it’s repeal would do anything to educational outcomes either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=63)