# GOP still trending to win Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426 "2014-08-13T10:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1341 "2014-11-05T19:21:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That depends. What is the likelihood that they could get some nerve gas and bring it into the country and use it? > > Also, what are the consequence for our interests in the Middle East if they control a large swathe of territory, or even more unthinkable, take over an actual country? > > the President made the case clearly that our interests are at stake here. I actually support his decision to not use ground troops, for now, because I think Arabs and Kurds need to fight for themselves. We’ll never be out of the Middle East if we keep on having to bail them out. But if we can’t win any other way, we have to do it. And I think we will, because nearly all the military people I’ve heard speak on the issue say it’s the only way. Arabs are fighting for themselves but of course the problem is that the wrong Arabs may win (wrong in the eyes of the West). The other problem is that some wars just cannot be won from the air. At some point the US may have to decide just how badly they want the bad guys beaten. Enough to put boots on the ground? That decision will be Obama’s and, no, he’s not up for election again but his legacy may depend on what he decides and all Presidents worry about their legacy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1342 "2014-11-05T19:21:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I was challenging the claim that “the President called for war”, and challenging the need for ground troops. I know. Obama did not use the term “war”, but to say we are not at war with ISIL is to deny reality in favor of political expedience. How can you NOT be at war with a military entity you are trying to destroy with your military. The issue of ground troops is immaterial. One can argue if they are needed in this instance or not, but they are not the _sine qua non_ of “war”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1343 "2014-11-05T19:22:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I was challenging the claim that “the President called for war”, and challenging the need for ground troops. On second thought, I’ll concede on the first point. There’s no point in arguing the semantic point about the definition of war – that’s foolish of me. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1344 "2014-11-05T19:25:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My question for 2014 – are you going to address, even obliquely, how utterly wrong your predictions were? They were based on an overestimate of the intelligence of the electorate. I did not see any way that such a silly little ditz like Ernst could pick up Iowa, nor did I think that a cockroach like Walker could win once exposed to the light. I’m much more optimistic about the 2016 prospects, when the intellectually challenged among us won’t be voting to spite Obama. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1345 "2014-11-05T19:28:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It isn’t just a game. People’s lives and livelihoods are affected. It _matters_. Of course! After all, “freedom” and “less nanny-state” are both things we can look forward to in copious amounts! Aren’t you following along at all?! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1346 "2014-11-05T19:42:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They were based on an overestimate of the intelligence of the electorate. I did not see any way that such a silly little ditz like Ernst could pick up Iowa, nor did I think that a cockroach like Walker could win once exposed to the light. > > I’m much more optimistic about the 2016 prospects, when the intellectually challenged among us won’t be voting to spite Obama. That makes a lot of sense. You have an incredible ability to figure everything all out except for this one small exception - just how stupid people are. But once that’s out of the way, now you really _really_ know everything, so your future predictions are rock solid. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1347 "2014-11-05T19:52:42Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > And that’s the element of this last election that I totally just don’t get. How are things not getting better? Gas is cheaper, unemployment is down, the economy’s improving… the only bad bits seem to be happening outside the US, where it can easily be argued that we don’t have much influence (or, at least, not enough). Oh, and the gridlock in Congress, but that’s clearly being instigated by the Republicans. > > So what’s so bad? I admit I may be spoiled in that my life’s been pretty good the past 8 years (despite my recent layoff), but I’m just not seeing anything other than some sort of vague “things should be better, dammit” vibe. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The Democrats were unable (and seemingly unwilling to even try) to make the case, which I think would have been pretty easy, that Obama has made America stronger and more prosperous. In 2008 the labor force participation rate was 66%. It’s now 63%. You have to go back to Jimmy Carter to find lower participation rates. It’s been falling since 2008. So while the unemployment rate may be down, millions of people aren’t working that were working before. I’m sure the President will not pass up any opportunity to point to the falling unemployment rate as some sort of validation of whatever it is he thinks he’s done. Whatever this administration has been doing isn’t working. I think this election reflects that reality. For those people the economy hasn’t been improving. And, for them, it’s not a ‘perception.’ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1348 "2014-11-05T19:52:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They were based on an overestimate of the intelligence of the electorate. I did not see any way that such a silly little ditz like Ernst could pick up Iowa, nor did I think that a cockroach like Walker could win once exposed to the light. > > I’m much more optimistic about the 2016 prospects, when the intellectually challenged among us won’t be voting to spite Obama. So this was the first election in which that miscalculation reared its head, was it? What flubbed you up in 2004? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1349 "2014-11-05T19:58:00Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > In 2008 the labor force participation rate was 66%. It’s now 63%. You have to go back to Jimmy Carter to find lower participation rates. It’s been falling since 2008. There could be (and probably are) many reasons for this besides people who’ve given up looking for a job. The population has aged. The ACA has allowed some folks who wanted to retire but couldn’t due to the need for health care for themselves or their families to actually retire. There are probably other factors as well. > [@](#): > > I’m sure the President will not pass up any opportunity to point to the falling unemployment rate as some sort of validation of whatever it is he thinks he’s done. Whatever this administration has been doing isn’t working. I think this election reflects that reality. For those people the economy hasn’t been improving. And, for them, it’s not a ‘perception.’ Things are much, much better now, overall, than in 2008. That’s the argument. Things can and should also improve further, and Democrats should lay out their plan to make it so, while harping on all the things that have improved. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1350 "2014-11-05T20:18:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So this was the first election in which that miscalculation reared its head, was it? > > What flubbed you up in 2004? I was right in 2004. Ohio was stolen for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1351 "2014-11-05T20:18:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Things are getting better, you’re absolutely right. But the government has been performing poorly and in an unusual development, Americans are really noticing even as the economy improves. Americans are angry at our broken government and blame both parties. But as is usually the case, they blame the party in the White House more. They certainly do, but it’s demonstrably not the Dems fault for failing to extend the olive branch. If you’re honest, even a little, you’d note that Obama has been an extraordinarily flexible president, even in the face of no-nothings heckling him in the congress. This election was the result of Dems not being riled up to vote. GOP voters are angry, and the seething slow burn hatred that fuels them is the sort of thing that gets you up early on election day. If you’re disappointed in how little progress your party is making, you’re more likely to blow the whole thing off. > [@](#): > > One of these parties needs to start governing competently and stop playing corrupt games. We are in the internet age now, a lot of the BS politicians used to be able to get away with, they can’t now. It’s time for real change and whichever party figures out how to accomplish that, the 50-50 nature of our country since 2000 will be broken and one party will attain a superior position. That is not true at all. The GOP platform is made up things that are not true, and the internet makes it easy for lies to gain traction. People believe Benghazi was a scandal. It wasn’t. People believe in “government takeovers” of health care, there was none. People believe that climate change is a scam run by fatcat researchers for sweet sweet grant money. It’s not. The GOP is successful in creating a false narrative of facts and “information” that simply doesn’t comport with reality. Dems aren’t perfect, but aside from gun control they rarely outright confabulate monkeyshines to drive policy. This is a setback not only for Dems, but for America and the world. The fact that so many of the GOP are true believers in a fictional world that doesn’t relate to ours means their actions and policy will reflect that phantom world, and will only make our real world better by accident. Hopefully they step on their dicks enough that President Hillary comes in to a Dem lock in 2016, otherwise we’re wasting a generation on fighting the fatcat researchers while coastal cities lose waterfront. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1352 "2014-11-05T20:25:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They were based on an overestimate of the intelligence of the electorate. I did not see any way that such a silly little ditz like Ernst could pick up Iowa, nor did I think that a cockroach like Walker could win once exposed to the light. But this is the sort of bitter, defiant response that supporters of any losing party could resort to. Romney supporters, after 2012, could have said something sour like, _“I guess 65 million voters were simply too blind and ignorant to see Obama’s agenda for what it is,”_ or so forth, etc. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1353 "2014-11-05T20:29:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But this is the sort of bitter, defiant response that supporters of any losing party could resort to. > > Romney supporters, after 2012, could have said bitterly, “I guess 65 million voters were simply too blind and ignorant to see Obama’s agenda for what it is,” etc. In fact, [many did](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15867599&postcount=2)! ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1354 "2014-11-05T20:49:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There could be (and probably are) many reasons for this besides people who’ve given up looking for a job. The population has aged. The ACA has allowed some folks who wanted to retire but couldn’t due to the need for health care for themselves or their families to actually retire. There are probably other factors as well. > > Things are much, much better now, overall, than in 2008. That’s the argument. Things can and should also improve further, and Democrats should lay out their plan to make it so, while harping on all the things that have improved. So in 2008 the labor force was 154 million and in 2014 it’s 155.5 million and during the same time period the population gained 16 million and the conclusion is that things are much, much better and millions of people retired who otherwise couldn’t? If you really believe that then this election will never make sense to you. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1355 "2014-11-05T20:56:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In fact, [many did](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15867599&postcount=2)! What did you think of those people? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1356 "2014-11-05T21:25:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you’re honest, even a little, . . . Let’s not further this (inevitably contentious) thread with suggestions of dishonesty–particularly when replying to a remarkably even handed observation. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1357 "2014-11-05T21:41:05Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But this is the sort of bitter, defiant response that supporters of any losing party could resort to. > > Romney supporters, after 2012, could have said something sour like, _“I guess 65 million voters were simply too blind and ignorant to see Obama’s agenda for what it is,”_ or so forth, etc. It’s not bitter when Dems do it. The Republican Party in its current form is the epitome of evil- I think I’m generous to call their voters stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1358 "2014-11-05T21:46:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It isn’t just a game. People’s lives and livelihoods are affected. It _matters_. I’d submit that makes winning, and losing, with grace and maturity even more important. Being immature as a fan of a sports team after losing to a heated rival doesn’t affect anything. An election is just the first step to governance. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1359 "2014-11-05T22:11:31Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s not bitter when Dems do it. “It’s one thing when my side does it, it’s another thing when the opposing side does it.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426/1360 "2014-11-05T22:24:06Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > So in 2008 the labor force was 154 million and in 2014 it’s 155.5 million and during the same time period the population gained 16 million and the conclusion is that things are much, much better and millions of people retired who otherwise couldn’t? > > If you really believe that then this election will never make sense to you. The economy has had steady growth, unemployment is down – the labor force doesn’t tell us how many are actually working, and more people are working. And the number of people working has grown steadily for a while. Not that things are great – we need more improvement. But much, much better than in '08, when things were in free fall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-still-trending-to-win-senate/695426.md?page=69)