# GOP superPACs plan to spend $1 billion on electons this year **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 8, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451 "2012-06-08T01:37:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/41 "2012-06-08T19:34:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Money does not equal speech. That’s a strawman that has been invented by people who are opposed to the first amendment. > > Speech equals speech. Often (almost always, except in cases of expressing yourself vocally in the street, and even then you’d probably want to BUY yourself a loudspeaker) you need to spend money in order to express yourself. It’s a _very_ common argument justifying unlimited personal and corporate contributions to political campaign, usually by people who are trying to wrap themselves in the First Amendment. > [@Lobohan](#): > > So, Rand, now that you know your argument is silly, please don’t use it again, okay? That’s comedy gold right there. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/42 "2012-06-08T20:38:53Z")
> [@Yask](#): > > You keep chanting that scotus doesn’t make laws. You say they only pass on the constitutionality of a law. Guess what, sunshine? That power comes from … wait for it … a judge-made law. OMG WTF PDQ! **Say it isn’t so!** > > …CU was bad law, and there are plenty of vehicles for bringing its holding **before the court** –which should overturn it. It isn’t so! Congress screwed up when they passed a poorly written law. Congress can always write more campaign fianance laws. Which court are you suggesting will overturn CU? The SCOTUS? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/43 "2012-06-09T04:39:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This argument is of course, nonsense. > > Obama outspent McCain under the old, pre Citizens United rules. This means that individuals and corporations were limited in what they could spend on him. > > Now, one billionaire can decide to give as much money as a hundred million voters. > > It used to be that more money was got by more contributors (and bundlers and so on). Now, instead of needing many people to get more money, all you need is one. > So, Rand, now that you know your argument is silly, please don’t use it again, okay? I was asking the people who get all bent out of shape by the amount of money spent yfor example, our esteemed OP) . You are responding to a different point entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Yask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Yask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yask)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/44 "2012-06-09T05:32:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It isn’t so! > > Congress screwed up when they passed a poorly written law. > > Congress can always write more campaign fianance laws. > Which court are you suggesting will overturn CU? The SCOTUS? No, seriously, this is really really basic stuff. Not just basic school learning, but it’s been in the news quite a bit. [Can Montana brief end Citizens United?](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76448.html) Also consider [Justice Stevens: Citizens United Ruling Will Fall Apart](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/justice-john-paul-stevens-citizens-united-fall-apart.php). None of this is dispositive that they _will_ overturn CU, or what its likelihood is. It’s to refute the fetish that _only congress can make laws!_ and to point out the glaringly obvious: yes, I–and anyone who passed civics–am saying that the SCOTUS can overturn CU. (Again, this doesn’t hit on what you didn’t bring up (whether they will), it’s just addressing your unfamiliarity with how the system works). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/45 "2012-06-09T05:51:37Z")
I can just hear Scalia saying “Hey, guys, I really screwed the pooch on that one. My reasoning was lame, my precedents weak. Money has civil rights, what the fuck was I thinking? So, can we have a do-over on that one. Man, I am just so embarrassed…” Cue Buddy Holly _That’ll Be The Day…_ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/46 "2012-06-09T06:05:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I can just hear Scalia saying “Hey, guys, I really screwed the pooch on that one. My reasoning was lame, my precedents weak. Money has civil rights, what the fuck was I thinking? So, can we have a do-over on that one. Man, I am just so embarrassed…” > > Cue Buddy Holly _That’ll Be The Day…_ No, the way it works is that another case will come before the court. Scalia (or one of the other judges) will use twisted logic for why Citizen United doesn’t apply, allowing a 5-4 majority, but the other judges will stick to their previous reasoning and thus that will be in the majority brief or whatever it’s called. Or, better yet, one of the judges will retire and be replaced by another judge who will disagree with the previous one on this issue, and thus the case will work out that way. I know you’re being funny, but, right now, your attempt at humor is disguising the truth. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/47 "2012-06-09T06:22:53Z")
The only truth I am even applying to is that I would find it enormously entertaining to see Scalia scarf down a serving of humble pie and a side of crow. And that’ll be the day. I am offering no pretensions to serious thought. On this occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/48 "2012-06-09T06:49:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The only truth I am even applying to is that I would find it enormously entertaining to see Scalia scarf down a serving of humble pie and a side of crow. And that’ll be the day. I am offering no pretensions to serious thought. On this occasion. Why would he? I vehemently disagree, but there are people on the board who don’t think there’s anything wrong with unlimited private and corporate flows of money into political campaigns. There are people who not only don’t see anything inherently wrong with it, but honestly believe it _enhances_ democracy. There are fundamental differences in our conceptions of democracy. I assume both sides feel that the other is dishearteningly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/49 "2012-06-09T07:38:52Z")
Jeez, you guys do to jokes what Dexter does to people! ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/50 "2012-06-09T07:47:31Z")
Maybe you do to jokes what Ghalleger does to watermelons 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/51 "2012-06-09T08:00:32Z")
You hear what happened to that guy? He does a routine that is strictly Freeper, birther, and whack a doodle! Like a viciously retarded Dennis Miller! I shit you not! ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/52 "2012-06-09T08:20:01Z")
To whoosh or not to whoosh … or to WTF? He was awesome to my 10-year-old self, and probably had a good impact on my outlook (new eyes). He went the Victoria Jackson route? ☹ Or really, was this a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/53 "2012-06-09T09:55:25Z")
On the other hand, they’re spending a whole heap of money. Just think of it as an economic stimulus! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/54 "2012-06-09T15:27:30Z")
> [@Yask](#): > > No, seriously, this is really really basic stuff. Not just basic school learning, but it’s been in the news quite a bit. > > [Can Montana brief end Citizens United?](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76448.html) > > Also consider [Justice Stevens: Citizens United Ruling Will Fall Apart](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/justice-john-paul-stevens-citizens-united-fall-apart.php). > None of this is dispositive that they _will_ overturn CU, or what its likelihood is. It’s to refute the fetish that _only congress can make laws!_ and to point out the glaringly obvious: yes, I–and anyone who passed civics–am saying that the SCOTUS can overturn CU. (Again, this doesn’t hit on what you didn’t bring up (whether they will), it’s just addressing your unfamiliarity with how the system works). I appreciate your efforts on my behalf. The SCOTUS isn’t last because they are right. The SCOTUS is right because they are last. The SCOTUS has been asked to address specific issues pertaining to campaign fianance. They’ve addressed those issues. You don’t agree with their ruling. EX-Justice Stevens doesn’t agree with the ruling. Neither you or Stevens are currently on the Supreme Court. The SCOTUS can not simply decide that they made a mistake and announce a new decision without their being presented with another court case to base that change on. Congress wrote and rewrote campaign fianance laws. The SCOTUS has ruled that some sections of those laws are unconstitutional. Congress can write more laws. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/55 "2012-06-09T16:16:09Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > To whoosh or not to whoosh … or to WTF? He was awesome to my 10-year-old self, and probably had a good impact on my outlook (new eyes). He went the Victoria Jackson route? ☹ > Or really, was this a whoosh? Sadly, no. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/56 "2012-06-16T03:13:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Republicans are stupid to be wasting that much money > [@asterion](#): > > Wouldn’t it be cheaper just to pay your taxes? Yeah, that. These guys are “voting” against their own interests by funding the Republicans. Unless they figure that propping up a hierarchy is necessary to stop the country from descending into Socialism and that they’re just paying their dues. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/57 "2012-06-19T13:34:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From [Politico:](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76849.html#ixzz1x5oSqY9X) > > [Let’s please not allow this any more.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=653227) Not allow freedom of speech? Sorry, no. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/58 "2012-06-19T13:37:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Money != speech. And freedom of speech != the freedom to buy the most time on the loudest amplifier in the room. Spending money on a right is part of that right. Could the government, say, ban spending money on bibles but say it’s not a restriction on religious freedom? There is nothing in the Constitution that says you get to have as much speech as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/59 "2012-06-19T13:39:08Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > For myself, the problem is that there IS no difference. There must come a point where this kind of money arms race is absurd, counterproductive, and unhealthy for the process. Perhaps. But it’s still not constitutional for the government to limit spending on speech. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451/60 "2012-06-19T13:40:15Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > It influences election less than some people think but it does have appreciable influence. However, the influence I fear is the continued heightening of partisanship. Already polarized people who don’t listen to anyone they disagree with will be inundated with even more ads from people they agree with. Then, even if they lose the election they will be all “they STOLE the election! Let’s take OUR country back! I don’t know ANYONE who voted for the other guy! All you hear from EVERYONE is support for my side! They’re not real Americans!” I think ads can reinforce this view. Bans on spending on speech by certain sources certainly reinforce that view too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-superpacs-plan-to-spend-1-billion-on-electons-this-year/624451.md?page=4)