# GOP TP wing seems to be doubling down on being even more extreme - Successful long term strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 1, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302 "2014-02-01T21:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/221 "2014-02-11T05:04:45Z")
What does science tell you about reducing earmarks? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/222 "2014-02-11T05:08:29Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Basically, yeah the Tea Party is financed and backed by these local notables, but their voting base is the salt of the Earth folk, which explains why they rely on a lot of this religious rhetoric. Religious rhetoric in the South screams populist to me. I can understand why certain people would disagree though. Religious rhetoric does not scream “Tea Party” to me, though; one finds little of it on their rally-signs or in their literature (though one always senses a certain subtext, religious in style if not content). What one finds is all about a bloated federal government, high taxes, overregulation, etc., which is what one would expect “local notables” to complain about first and foremost, the things that affect their local power and autonomy and bottom-lines. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/223 "2014-02-11T05:21:23Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What does science tell you about reducing earmarks? Not much, and that is why I did not use them as examples, so the point stands, there are indeed items that are clearly extreme positions; and it is important to let all Americans that do appreciate science and reason to be aware of what is going on with the Republican party nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/224 "2014-02-11T05:26:19Z")
Meanwhile, Keystone still languishes despite the science being 100% in support of the project. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/225 "2014-02-11T05:34:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Meanwhile, Keystone still languishes despite the science being 100% in support of the project. Not from where I look at, Keystone is OK if you only look at the locations and technology, but being OK ignores that it means that even more CO2 will be dumped in the near future. > **[What tar sands and the Keystone XL pipeline mean for climate change](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/aug/23/tar-sands-keystone-xl-climate)** > > Skeptical Science: Environmentalist Bill McKibben was among 100 people arrested at the weekend for protesting against the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline. But why are climate campaigners so concerned? > [@](#): > > Keystone Pipeline Emissions > > The EPA also evaluated the greenhouse gas emissions specifically associated with the proposed Keystone pipeline which McKibben’s group is protesting. > > “recognizing the proposed Project 's lifetime is expected to be at least fifty years, we believe it is important to be clear that under at least one scenario, the extra GHG emissions associated with this proposed Project may range from 600 million to 1.15 billion tons CO2-e, assuming the lifecycle analysis holds over time” > > Over 1 billion tons of equivalent CO2 emissions is a substantial chunk of emissions. We recently discussed The Critical Decade report produced by the Climate Commission established by the Australian government. Their report concluded that humanity can emit not more than 1 trillion tonnes of CO2 between 2000 and 2050 to have a probability of about 75% of limiting temperature rise to 2°C or less. According to the latest data, between 2000 and 2010 we emitted approximately 300 billion tons of CO2, so after 20% of the allotted timeframe, we’re already over 30% of the way through the allotted emissions. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/226 "2014-02-11T12:26:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Religious rhetoric does not scream “Tea Party” to me, though; one finds little of it on their rally-signs or in their literature (though one always senses a certain subtext, religious in style if not content). What one finds is all about a bloated federal government, high taxes, overregulation, etc., which is what one would expect “local notables” to complain about first and foremost, the things that affect their local power and autonomy and bottom-lines. And when they get elected what do they do? They pass a bunch of religious stuff and try to invade people’s privacy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/227 "2014-02-11T14:18:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not from where I look at, Keystone is OK if you only look at the locations and technology, but being OK ignores that it means that even more CO2 will be dumped in the near future. > > [What tar sands and the Keystone XL pipeline mean for climate change | Environment | theguardian.com](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/aug/23/tar-sands-keystone-xl-climate) Except that if we don’t build it, we still use the same amount of gas and oil, and further we use riskier means to transport it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/228 "2014-02-11T15:47:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Except that if we don’t build it, we still use the same amount of gas and oil . . . Maybe we need to start looking at the problem from **that** end. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/229 "2014-02-11T17:27:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Except that if we don’t build it, we still use the same amount of gas and oil, and further we use riskier means to transport it. And still missing the point, we have to reduce emissions, we have to reduce the use of specially dirtier fossil fuels, that it will be more risky does also make the point that we should reduce their use in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/230 "2014-02-11T17:37:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can we at least agree that, regardless of poll numbers, a thing can be extremist just because it is preposterous? Both Trutherism and Birtherism meet that standard. > [@Bone](#): > > Of course not. Can you at least agree that Trutherism and Birtherism are preposterous? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/231 "2014-02-11T17:48:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Can you at least agree that Trutherism and Birtherism are preposterous? Yes. Those ideas and those who promulgate them are preposterous and not to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/232 "2014-02-11T17:59:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Yes. Those ideas and those who promulgate them are preposterous and not to be taken seriously. Tea Party Nation has posted [The Birther Manifesto](http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/the-birther-manifesto). If ‘those who promulgate them are preposterous and not to be taken seriously’, and the Tea Party acknowledges that they, as a group, are Birthers, then the Tea Party is preposterous and not to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/233 "2014-02-11T18:31:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Maybe we need to start looking at the problem from **that** end. We are. Hyrbid cars, electric cars, natural gas replacing oil for utilities, solar power getting closer to becoming viable. But in the meantime, let’s not do what Europe did, see rates skyrocket with the risk of blackouts. They had to roll back their ambitious plans when reality set in. GIGO, we should reduce their use. YOu don’t do that by trying to drive up the price by restricting supply. Not that it doesn’t ever work, but it’s the same theory behind fighting the drug war, made more difficult by the fact that you’re trying to restrict a legal product. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/234 "2014-02-11T19:13:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We are. Hyrbid cars, electric cars, natural gas replacing oil for utilities, solar power getting closer to becoming viable. > > But in the meantime, let’s not do what Europe did, see rates skyrocket with the risk of blackouts. They had to roll back their ambitious plans when reality set in. > > GIGO, we should reduce their use. YOu don’t do that by trying to drive up the price by restricting supply. Not that it doesn’t ever work, but it’s the same theory behind fighting the drug war, made more difficult by the fact that you’re trying to restrict a legal product. Now that is the most ridiculous excuse made for that. And this is because this is one item where adding the real price to us using the atmosphere as a sewer is necessary, as a carbon tax, cap and trade and other ideas are seen as better options than just doing regulations. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/235 "2014-02-11T19:37:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …But in the meantime, let’s not do what Europe did, see rates skyrocket with the risk of blackouts. They had to roll back their ambitious plans when reality set in… Oh? Germany: Bloomburg says its going along quite nicely: [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/near-record-wind-helps-renewables-supply-a-third-of-german-power.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/near-record-wind-helps-renewables-supply-a-third-of-german-power.html) **Record German Wind Power Lifts Renewable Share Over ’20 Goal** Forbes, however, swears its all going straight to Hell in _der handenbasket_: > **[Germany's Energy Goes Kaput, Threatening Economic Stability](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brighammccown/2013/12/30/germanys-energy-goes-kaput-threatening-economic-stability/)** > > If you want to do something big, you have to start small; and German innovation is well known around the world. Yet when it comes to energy policy, the country looks to have placed the cart before the horse. Germany has led much of Europe with... **Germany’s Energy Goes Kaput, Threatening Economic Stability** (Should, of course, be noted that the Forbes is an editorial, an opinion piece.) You have the unfortunate habit of blandly declaring issues to be settled fact instead of subjects of controversy. Do work on that, won’t you? There’s a good fellow… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/236 "2014-02-11T19:40:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > GIGO, we should reduce their use. YOu don’t do that by trying to drive up the price by restricting supply. Not that it doesn’t ever work, but it’s the same theory behind fighting the drug war, made more difficult by the fact that you’re trying to restrict a legal product. _psssttt_ Got some premium hi-test here . . . ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/237 "2014-02-11T23:37:59Z")
So today the House did something sane: they passed a clean debt limit increase. I told you all they were learning. Sometimes I do get it right. And elucidator: > **[Sluggish Economy Prompts Europe to Reconsider Its Intentions on Climate...](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/business/energy-environment/sluggish-economy-prompts-europe-to-reconsider-climate-goals.html?_r=0)** > > European Union officials are having second thoughts about how aggressively to remake the Continent’s energy-producing sector. A deep and lasting economic slowdown, persistently high prices for renewable energy sources and years of inconclusive international negotiations are giving European officials second thoughts about how aggressively to remake the Continent’s energy-production industries. The details are still being negotiated in Brussels, but officials said the European Commission’s energy and climate proposal will probably include a binding target of reducing emissions by 35 percent to 40 percent by 2030. Some officials wanted to make the new targets for renewable energy nonbinding. But opposition this week appears to have turned the tide in favor of having a binding renewable target — although it would be applied across the European Union rather than to individual nations, according to an official briefed on the negotiations. … Germany, which has pushed for the energy and climate targets, has been struggling with the realities of shifting its energy mix. Germany’s plan, backed by Chancellor Angela Merkel and opposition parties, to close its nuclear power plants and build up renewable energy is running into problems. German consumers are being hit with rising electric bills, and businesses worry that energy costs are putting them at a disadvantage with competitors in countries like the United States. Now if Democrats want to push up energy bills in pursuit of emissions goals, they should run on that. GIGO evidently thinks they should. And then there’s this: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/16/eu-climate-transport-idUSL5N0KQ26K20140116](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/16/eu-climate-transport-idUSL5N0KQ26K20140116) BRUSSELS, Jan 16 (Reuters) - The European Union’s climate and energy strategy for 2030 will not include a specific target on curbing emissions from transport, the fastest growing source of greenhouse gases in the bloc and the most expensive to cut. Many in industry and some member states have pushed hard for a simplified EU climate framework after 2020, when current policies expire, that ditches existing sub-targets for sectors such as transport and energy. That would allow governments to pursue the most cost-effective emissions cuts as they try to safeguard the bloc’s fragile economic recovery. But critics say this will mean emissions from transport continue to rise in contrast to all other sectors, making it less likely that Europe will meet its long-term climate goals. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/238 "2014-02-12T00:48:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So today the House did something sane: they passed a clean debt limit increase. I told you all they were learning. Sometimes I do get it right. > [@New York Times](#): > > The vote – 221-201 – relied primarily on Democrats to carry the legislation, the first debt ceiling increase since 2009 that was not attached to other measures. Only 28 Republicans voted yes. I guess we learned that Boehner can put the country above his job as Speaker? But you probably shouldn’t act like the Republican party supported this. > **[House Approves Higher Debt Limit Without Condition (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/politics/boehner-to-bring-debt-ceiling-to-vote-without-policy-attachments.html?_r=0)** > > The vote, relying almost entirely on Democrats, ended three years of brinkmanship in which the threat of a default was used to wring concessions from President Obama. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/239 "2014-02-12T00:53:50Z")
They weaseled. They supported it, but wanted to be seen as voting against it. But Boehner was given clearance to put this bill forward by key conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302/240 "2014-02-12T01:13:32Z")
So weaseling into the good graces of right wing extremists _is_ a successful long term strategy then? It’ll help in the primaries sure, but once in the general election having a voting record that supports a second government shut down (or can be easily made to look that way) is probably not ideal. How is this vote not evidence that Tea Party extremists are still in control of the GOP if the majority of the GOP won’t even risk being associated with _not_ shutting down the government and wasting billions of dollars? The only hope is to bank on everyone forgetting this by November, but considering it will almost certainly come up in the primaries as proof of “conservative cred” that seems unlikely. What positive spin do you see on this vote post-primaries for the Republican Party? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-tp-wing-seems-to-be-doubling-down-on-being-even-more-extreme-successful-long-term-strategy/680302.md?page=13)