# GOP warns CNN, NBC to drop Hillary Clinton programs or be shut out of 2016 Republican debates **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471 "2013-08-06T04:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dettvdir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@dettvdir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dettvdir)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/21 "2013-08-06T14:31:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Let’s see if I’ve got this right: A “documentary” about Hillary before the 2008 primaries that was aimed at torpedoing her campaign and which led to the dreadful Citizens United case was free speech. A neutral biography piece about her must be stifled using blackmail, lest it show her not to be a monster. Got it. DetTVDir: Hey! Don’t apply Republican Party rules to-- uh-- Republicans, for crying-out-loud! No fair, with that logic stuff, too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/22 "2013-08-06T14:35:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have no idea how neutral, laudatory, or critical the piece is. But I do know that the actors seeking to bury it are not government actors. Maybe. In some places the GOP primary is the _de facto_ election (just as the Democratic primary is in others). There’s a case that says a party whose primary is a de facto election counts as a state actor. Kansas Jayhawk Party? Texas Jaycee Party? Something like that. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/23 "2013-08-06T14:36:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They cancelled that in favor or a hot dog eating contest featuring Chris Christy and Mike Huckabee. What, no Michelle Bachmann? She may not match the other two in volume, but she’ll make up for it in technique. [http://www.politicolnews.com/michelle-and-marcus-bachmann-dig-into-corn-dogs-in-iowa/](http://www.politicolnews.com/michelle-and-marcus-bachmann-dig-into-corn-dogs-in-iowa/) (Scroll about halfway down for best pic.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/24 "2013-08-06T14:51:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe. In some places the GOP primary is the _de facto_ election (just as the Democratic primary is in others). There’s a case that says a party whose primary is a de facto election counts as a state actor. Kansas Jayhawk Party? Texas Jaycee Party? Something like that. I’ll read the case if you find it, but it doesn’t sound like that argument applies here, when the discussion is the national party and its actions with respect to its national convention and national candidates. Were you arguing that it does? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/25 "2013-08-06T14:56:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll read the case if you find it, but it doesn’t sound like that argument applies here, when the discussion is the national party and its actions with respect to its national convention and national candidates. > > Were you arguing that it does? What do you personally think about this blackmail attempt? Even if it is legal, do you think it is the right thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/26 "2013-08-06T15:09:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. Because the actor seeking to suppress the “documentary” was the Federal Election Commission. That’s why the “dreadful” case was styled _Citizens United v. **Federal Election Commission** _, 130 S.Ct. 876 (2010). When the government acts to suppress speech, it implicates the “Free Speech” guarantees of the First Amendment. > > I have no idea how neutral, laudatory, or critical the piece is. But I do know that the actors seeking to bury it are not government actors. I guess I would frame it a bit differently. Citizens United Case Republicans: We want to use the public airwaves during a primary season to smear a political candidate even though it violates the Fairness Doctrine. Supreme Court: Party on, dudes! Fairness Doctrine in unfair to rich people! 2013: Republicans: Hey, networks! We know you have a right to, but if you dare show anything about Hillary that we don’t like, we’re going to cut you out of our 2016 primary process. Neener neener neener! Sure, it’s their party and they’ll ban who they want to, but it smells. For a major party to attempt to blackmail networks and stifle free speech just doesn’t seem consistent with a democratic society. This just years after fighting for their right to free speech to smear that same candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/27 "2013-08-06T15:11:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What do you personally think about this blackmail attempt? Even if it is legal, do you think it is the right thing to do? The vast weight of energy from a substantially active contingent of this board’s membership is spent in telling me how wrong my opinions are. I’m sure no one is really interested in them now. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/28 "2013-08-06T15:15:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I guess I would frame it a bit differently. > > Citizens United Case > Republicans: We want to use the public airwaves during a primary season to smear a political candidate even though it violates the Fairness Doctrine. > > Supreme Court: Party on, dudes! Fairness Doctrine in unfair to rich people! > 2013: > Republicans: Hey, networks! We know you have a right to, but if you dare show anything about Hillary that we don’t like, we’re going to cut you out of our 2016 primary process. Neener neener neener! > > Sure, it’s their party and they’ll ban who they want to, but it smells. For a major party to attempt to blackmail networks and stifle free speech just doesn’t seem consistent with a democratic society. This just years after fighting for their right to free speech to smear that same candidate. Sure. That’s a valid critique. My objection rested in your attempt to conflate the use of the First Amendment’s protection for free speech against a government actor with the private use of pressure to dissuade disliked speech. It’s perfectly possible to say, “I don’t want my government suppressing speech, but I don’t mind private actors taking their best shot.” And, indeed, isn’t that what often happens when any boycott is called? A group of private actors says to a business: “Stop saying what you’ve been saying, or I’ll stop buying your products and encourage others to do the same.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/29 "2013-08-06T15:19:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The vast weight of energy from a substantially active contingent of this board’s membership is spent in telling me how wrong my opinions are. > > I’m sure no one is really interested in them now. Actually, a vast amount of _your_ time seems to be spent hiding your opinions behind legalities. Do you think that the entirety of this thread should be about whether or not what they are doing is legal? Since what they are attempting do _is_ most likely legal, I guess we should not give a shit whether or not what they are attempting to do is _right_. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/30 "2013-08-06T15:36:34Z")
Stupid and bush-league (heh) move by the GOP. I will say, though, that the GOP’s complaints mirror (in reverse) many of the complaints on the SDMB: that a news network is a mouthpiece for a national political party. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/31 "2013-08-06T15:38:15Z")
I hope both networks run their biopics as I would like to see them. I think they should run them now when she is not a candidate and long before she declares if she will run or not. In fact, if the networks are going to run them at all, they should do it now- long before the political season heats up. I also think it’s petty and whiny that the RNC is threatening to refuse to participate in debates on those networks. Prebius said something about not getting referees that they like… so is he admitting they can only ‘win’ if they get the right refs? So what debates are left if they don’t participate in network ones? Just the main “Commission” one? Really, RNC, why debate at all? It’s not required. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/32 "2013-08-06T15:44:52Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Really, RNC, why debate at all? It’s not required. Just refusing to debate looks like a weakness. On the other hand, claiming that they were “forced” to back out because the deck was stacked against them gives the true believers exactly what they want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/33 "2013-08-06T15:46:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Just refusing to debate looks like a weakness. On the other hand, claiming that they were “forced” to back out because the deck was stacked against them gives the true believers exactly what they want to hear. No, I think they’re talking here about a primary-season debate between Republican presidential candidates. That’s a debate they can’t **not** have; looks bad if the Dems do it and the Pubs don’t. They can’t forego it, but they don’t have to let CNN in the door. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/34 "2013-08-06T15:47:41Z")
Why can’t Fox run a fair and balanced bio of Hillary to offset the liberal one the RNC is crying about? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/35 "2013-08-06T15:52:03Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Why can’t Fox run a fair and balanced bio of Hillary to offset the liberal one the RNC is crying about? Because Fox couldn’t even run a “fair and balanced” game of Chutes And Ladders? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/36 "2013-08-06T15:54:54Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Why can’t Fox run a fair and balanced bio of Hillary to offset the liberal one the RNC is crying about? They could simply air [_Hillary: The Movie,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary:_The_Movie) the one that gave rise to the [_Citizens United_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_united) case. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/37 "2013-08-06T15:55:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Because Fox couldn’t even run a “fair and balanced” game of Chutes And Ladders? I suppose I should have enabled the snarkasm indicator… ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/38 "2013-08-06T15:57:49Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Really, RNC, why debate at all? It’s not required. Why do you hate comedians? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/39 "2013-08-06T16:01:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Actually, a vast amount of _your_ time seems to be spent hiding your opinions behind legalities. Do you think that the entirety of this thread should be about whether or not what they are doing is legal? Since what they are attempting do _is_ most likely legal, I guess we should not give a shit whether or not what they are attempting to do is _right_. :rolleyes: I believe that your definition of “right” is largely informed by who benefits. That’s the reason the legal answer is of value. When we write the law, we enshrine neutral principles into a code of conduct, before knowing who may benefit. It’s akin to baseball: an umpire has a set of rules which he applies to the situation, without regard to which team happens to benefit. I think your approach starts by asking whose cause is more just, or preferred, and then works backwards to determine what principles you might advance to aid your cause that particular day. In this particular case, I perceive no right or wrong. I do think it’s utterly foolish to try to extort compliance in the way the GOp is reported to be doing here, but I don’t see it as moral or immoral – just really idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471/40 "2013-08-06T16:05:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In this particular case, I perceive no right or wrong. I do think it’s utterly foolish to try to extort compliance in the way the GOp is reported to be doing here, but I don’t see it as moral or immoral – just really idiotic. And in this we are in absolute agreement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-warns-cnn-nbc-to-drop-hillary-clinton-programs-or-be-shut-out-of-2016-republican-debates/665471.md?page=3)