# GOP welcoming moderates now. This strategy work for you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423 "2009-05-05T15:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/41 "2009-05-05T17:42:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yep…“no evidence” :rolleyes: Oh, and to add to my initial statement: > [@](#): > > In Ohio, Bush attracted 16 percent of the black vote, up from 9 percent in 2000. That increase represented, according to Congress Daily’s Keith Koffler, “… a potentially devastating amount for Kerry. Extrapolating from the exit poll, this would amount to about 50,000 new votes for Bush. If these had gone to Kerry, Bush’s 136,000 vote Ohio victory margin would have looked more like 36,000, and we would all be watching Court TV to see who won the election.” > > SOURCE: [News Articles - FindArticles](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_23_56/ai_n13648314/?tag=content;col1) Yep…nothing to see here…move along. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/42 "2009-05-05T17:51:35Z")
The repubs have distilled down to the 20 % that they really are. They have to enlarge their base. They would love to attract people a little more moderate but Limbaugh, Hannity and others are sending the opposite message. Any attempts to grow the base have to fight with the radical right wingers that get all the press. It will not work. They have to sabotage the dems and hope for a disaster. Limbaugh already gets that. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/43 "2009-05-05T17:53:04Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > DADT doesn’t work for the military …or were you being ironic? I was trying to speak from the center. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/44 "2009-05-05T18:08:20Z")
The GOP needs to grow a pair and publicly disavow Rush Limbaugh; let their idiot base form another party and let the GOP possibly gain a little respect. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/45 "2009-05-05T18:10:48Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > On certain issues. Young people are much less anti-gay and more pro-environment, but opposition to abortion isn’t trending down. So what? Last stats I remember, Americans are 70% pro choice. Has that changed? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/46 "2009-05-05T18:13:08Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Steele says that and yet, yesterday, I hear Limbaugh & Hannity both giving the same lines: “They say we need to attract moderates – that just means they want us to be like liberals! Why should anyone who believes in the Republican party want to be like liberals?! Real Republicans will never need to sacrifice their beliefs and pander to liberal wannabes who don’t believe in liberty and freedom!” > > No, Limbaugh & Hannity aren’t the “leaders” of the GOP. But they have more influence over the base than Steele does.When there’s a real place in that house for pro-choice or pro-gay marriage Republicans without their housemates insulting their beliefs, this might mean something. The thing about Limbaugh and Hannity and others of their ilk is that their business model isn’t at all about playing nice with others. Their whole schtick is predicated upon being the “angry white man.” If the GOP sheds a few million voters because blowhards like them can’t shut up and insist on foisting an outdated vision on the party, well that’s just the price of doing business. They couldn’t care less about what happens to the Republican Party as long as they manage to keep collecting a huge paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/47 "2009-05-05T18:14:20Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > The GOP needs to grow a pair and publicly disavow Rush Limbaugh; let their idiot base form another party and let the GOP possibly gain a little respect. You saw who had to apologize to whom when Steele gave Limbaugh the brushoff. While I don’t like anything about Steele, it’s also true that he’s in an unenviable position as the head of a party that is currently rudderless, and Steele himself doesn’t have much support. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/48 "2009-05-05T18:22:36Z")
I pretty much agree with what others have said. Steele isn’t going to get very far is the plan is moderates are welcome to vote for conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/49 "2009-05-05T18:25:09Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > The GOP needs to grow a pair and publicly disavow Rush Limbaugh; let their idiot base form another party and let the GOP possibly gain a little respect. Problem with that is, in a three-party system – i.e., a GOP of moderates, a large third party of movement conservatives, and the Democratic Party as now constituted – the Dems would always win, their opposition being split into two parties, neither of which could claim a majority outside a few red-county enclaves. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/50 "2009-05-05T18:26:13Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Frankly, I’ve almost never encountered a true “moderate.” Oh, I know tons of liberals who CLAIM to be moderate, but I’d love to know what you think a “moderate” is. > . . . > There’s already a party for liberals. There may be a party for liberals in the U.S., but whichever one of those tiny parties you may choose has not won a seat in Washington, (or the vast majority of state offices), in your lifetime. I love watching those on the extreme Right making so many harsh claims against the center party while trying to call them “liberals.” I think that there is a place for moderate Republicans. The Democrats definitely need honest criticism to keep them from running amok. Of course, as long as the core GOP only practices homosexuality in public restrooms while voting to discriminate against homosexuals, champions Creationism and prayer in schools, favors the hypocrisy of running up horrendous debts to finance pointless and ill-conceived wars while moaning that actual Keynesian economics is a horrible thing, and grovels at the foot of a drug addicted entertainer, (while muttering the mantra the drugs are bad), there is certainly a lot less room for moderates there. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/51 "2009-05-05T18:32:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Problem with that is, in a three-party system – i.e., a GOP of moderates, a large third party of movement conservatives, and the Democratic Party as now constituted – the Dems would always win, their opposition being split into two parties, neither of which could claim a majority outside a few red-county enclaves. Not quite, a new Moderate Party could once again start in the North. It would start winning seats and slowly grow in power and then they would start picking up many Governorships. Eventually the Republican party would lose the Libertarians, Neo-Cons and of course the Fiscal Conservatives and the remaining Neo-Cons would struggle along for a decade or two in a few states in the deep South and some of the other extremely Red states. The Dems would dominate for a long time but not forever. Maybe as little as 20 years total. A moderate party would probably cut the Dems quite a bit in the states. Once the party structure is in place, in-roads into the Senate and Congress will happen. This is all up to the Republicans though. They could move back to the center and kill any chances or they can keep up the current rhetoric and keep telling moderates that we are liberals and then a new party could be birthed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/52 "2009-05-05T18:36:21Z")
Actually, there is a lot of conservatism among many Democrat voters. A genuine Moderate party might actually take off and endanger us with a single party system. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/53 "2009-05-05T18:37:56Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > There may be a party for liberals in the U.S., but whichever one of those tiny parties you may choose has not won a seat in Washington, (or the vast majority of state offices), in your lifetime. > > I love watching those on the extreme Right making so many harsh claims against the center party while trying to call them “liberals.” Oh, there are some liberals in office in D.C. What is sadly lacking are **progressives,** defined as something more or less equivalent to “social democrats” in Europe, i.e., something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist,” as discussed in [this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496350) Rep. Dennis Kucinich and Senator Bernie Sanders (despite the latter being a self-ID’d socialist, he isn’t, really) are the only ones that come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/54 "2009-05-05T18:43:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yep…“no evidence” :rolleyes: > > > [@](#): > > > > SOURCE: [http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/po...ign/04gay.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/po...ign/04gay.html) Still not evidence. The best the article can say is that it helped get out social conservatives to vote. It doesn’t state anywhere that it was enough to push a state for Bush that would have otherwise gone to Kerry. It contains a lot of speculation but no facts to back it up. But here’s a quote from that same article: > [@](#): > > Mr. Foreman and other gay rights advocates also said that far more people cast ballots for president than for the amendments. That indicated the amendments were not critically important motivators for conservative voters, they argued. > > Indeed, in Ohio, 221,000 more people voted for president than for the constitutional amendment In any case, Ohio went to Bush in 2000 without the help of an anti-same sex marriage ballot. Only three states actually switched between red and blue in 2000 and 2004, and none of those three states had same-sex marriage up for a vote. [Only 11 states out of 50](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/02/ballot.samesex.marriage/index.html) had a same sex marriage ballot initiative in 2004, and all 11 of those states voted for the same party they did in 2000, two of them for Democrats. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Oh, and to add to my initial statement: > > > [@](#): > > > > SOURCE: [News Articles - FindArticles](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1) > > Yep…nothing to see here…move along. The article and the quote you selected still says Bush would have won Ohio by 36,000 votes even if he didn’t increase his share of the Ohio black vote from 9 percent in 2000 to 16 percent in 2004. It also makes no mention of same-sex marriage issue or its appeal to black voters. It suggests that the GOP spent more money on commercials targeting blacks and Hispanics. There were much, much bigger reasons for Bush’s reelection in 2004 than gay marriage. The first being the war. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/55 "2009-05-05T18:46:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, there are some liberals in office in D.C. What is sadly lacking are **progressives,** defined as something more or less equivalent to “social democrats” in Europe, i.e., something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist,” as discussed in [this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496350) Rep. Dennis Kucinich and Senator Bernie Sanders (despite the latter being a self-ID’d socialist, he isn’t, really) are the only ones that come to mind. Yes, but they have very little support in this country. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/56 "2009-05-05T18:47:28Z")
“Understand that when you come into someone’s house, you’re not looking to change it. You come in because that’s the place you want to be.” That sounds like code for a closeted gay Republican orgy to me. The problem with the Republicans asking moderates to vote for them is why can’t they just join the Democrats who talk a liberal game but are governing like moderates? Liberals like me are less than happy, but we will go along with it because it is better to be on the inside with the moderates and having a liberal (Obama) nominally in charge, but the decisions are still going to go straight down the middle. Conservatives don’t let the moderates run things, they marginalize them and will continue to tell them to shut up and agree with conservative priorities. Why would any “moderate” want to do that rather than be put in a position of real responsibility as a Democrat. I loathe Joe Lieberman and Arlen Specter’s politics, but I’m glad they caucus with us, and I’ll get over the positions of honor they’ve be given provided that government is run in an overall sane manner. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/57 "2009-05-05T18:50:35Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Yes, but they have very little support in this country. Still more than socialists – even such moderate socialists as the [Democratic Socialists of America](http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html) – have, though. Check out the [Working Families Party](http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/) and the [Vermont Progressive Party.](http://www.progressiveparty.org/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/58 "2009-05-05T18:51:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > “Understand that when you come into someone’s house, you’re not looking to change it. You come in because that’s the place you want to be.” > > That sounds like code for a closeted gay Republican orgy to me. Sounds to me like code for, “The movement conservatives already **did** exactly that to the GOP and I’m calling no backsies!” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/59 "2009-05-05T18:54:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Still more than socialists – even such moderate socialists as the [Democratic Socialists of America](http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html) – have, though. Check out the [Working Families Party](http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/) and the [Vermont Progressive Party.](http://www.progressiveparty.org/) Little support, not no support. Nor are they growing in number to speak of. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/60 "2009-05-05T18:54:58Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > That sounds like code for a closeted gay Republican orgy to me. Brain bleach! getch’er brain bleach right here! volume discounts! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423.md?page=4)