# GOP welcoming moderates now. This strategy work for you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423 "2009-05-05T15:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/161 "2009-05-07T14:05:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Can I just see if I got this right? > > Some here believe that the GOP has not been the home of true Conservative values, that “Moderates are all they have left”, and that the GOP has “been the home of RINOS for far too long” > > Many recognize that the GOP is increasingly becoming a Southern regional party. > > Steele comes in to his position articulating the concept that the GOP needs to reach out to regrow the party’s demographics and does so by undercutting Specter which drives him out and by the statement made in this op, essentially saying, come in, there’s a seat at the table, just don’t expect anyone to listen to you or let you eat the food. > > [Sessions](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/06/politics/politico/main4995094.shtml) “a Southern, white conservative man who has drawn fire for racially insensitive comments in the past” is elevated to point man for the GOP on whoever Obama selects for Souter’s Supremes seat. > > Powell, McCain, and many others are labelled by voices of “the base” as RINOs and should just go. > > Hmmm. Once upon a time Reagan (and the recently deceased [Kemp](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-jack-kemp3-2009may03,0,4950829.story) created a Big Tent and figured out ways “to ‘add and multiply’ the party” and amazingly that tent held some disparate groups within it for quite a while but now different groups are each trying to sing, to the tune of “This land is my Land”: “This tent is my tent, it is not your tent …” > > Moderates do not belong in the GOP, at least not this GOP. Center Right folk are being driven out. People with mixed positions - Far Right on some but center on others - are being driven out. > > Libertarians and Populist social conservatives are seeing if they can work together but are also looking for the chance to knife each other when the opportunity presents. > > Is that pretty much where things are? That is sure what it looks like to me. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/162 "2009-05-07T14:24:33Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > What I am against is the typical emotion-filled factless mathless discussion of UHC without tradeoffs that I typically see. And declaring “UHC will lead us to totalitarianism” is a good way of keeping emotions out of the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/163 "2009-05-07T14:24:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Is that pretty much where things are? Nailed it in one. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/164 "2009-05-07T14:28:38Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Nonsense. Anyone with a lick of sense knows the rate of avacado farm subsidies is an excellent predictor of incipient totalitarianism. Look, the fact of the matter is we can’t predict the onset of totalitarianism based on avacado subsidies. Nobody has ever predicted oncoming totalitarianism. The only clear solution is to execute all avacado farmers and pretend that the freaky maybe-fruit/maybe-vegetable ever existed. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/165 "2009-05-07T14:30:28Z")
Politico [has a story today](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22212.html) about the GOP trying to recruit moderate, RINO-esque candidates for blue state Senate races. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/166 "2009-05-07T14:34:36Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Politico [has a story today](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22212.html) about the GOP trying to recruit moderate, RINO-esque candidates for blue state Senate races. I hope El Rushbo hops on that today and makes sure it doesn’t happen. Gotta maintain purity. Unless Steele would just come up with a new motto: We will only trade our purity for electoral security. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/167 "2009-05-07T14:58:51Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I have to agree with this. The Republican Party has been the home of RINOS for far too long. Making your party welcome only to true conservatives is the fastest realistic path to electoral irrelevance. There is value in diverse viewpoints. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/168 "2009-05-07T15:10:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I have to agree with this. The Republican Party has been the home of RINOS for far too long. The last two elections, I voted Republican because it was the closest to what I wanted. If the Libertarians ever get someone who is not a moonbat like Ron Paul, I’ll probably go with them. > [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Making your party welcome only to true conservatives is the fastest realistic path to electoral irrelevance. There is value in diverse viewpoints. I think you misunderstand **Clothahump** , he might be one of the most conservative posters on the board, but he is also anti-Theocon. I suspect he has less in common with most of the current mainstays of the party that with a moderate type ex-RINO like me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/169 "2009-05-07T15:23:01Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > I get the sense that some of the people won’t be happy until the GOP either dies off or is a slightly variant version of the Democratic Party. If we had a Centrist Party, the lines between the extremes are blurred: > > Where do the socially and or economically conservative Democrats go? > > Where do the socially and or economically liberal Republicans go? > > If you’re “mixed” - economically conservative and socially liberal, or vice-versa, where do you go? [Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=516797) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/170 "2009-05-07T15:23:46Z")
What Exit? – Maybe, but if Clothahump leaves because Republicans are not conservative enough (as he defines it) it is still a net gain for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/171 "2009-05-07T15:32:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=516797) Is that before or after he visits Magical Gumdrop Land? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/172 "2009-05-07T15:40:52Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What Exit? – > > Maybe, but if Clothahump leaves because Republicans are not conservative enough (as he defines it) it is still a net gain for Democrats. True. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/173 "2009-05-07T15:46:47Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Nonsense. Anyone with a lick of sense knows the rate of avacado farm subsidies is an excellent predictor of incipient totalitarianism. No no no. It’s the arugula subsidies that predict that. Avocado subsidies signify more money for physics research on the true meaning of Avocado’s number and all moles had better look out. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/174 "2009-05-07T15:50:09Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No no no. It’s the arugula subsidies that predict that. Avocado subsidies signify more money for physics research on the true meaning of Avocado’s number and all moles had better look out. I dont know, what about the Devil’s Avocado? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/175 "2009-05-07T15:53:20Z")
Are you sure you don’t mean Alamagordo’s Number? It’s 42. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/176 "2009-05-07T15:53:28Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No no no. It’s the arugula subsidies that predict that. Avocado subsidies signify more money for physics research on the true meaning of Avocado’s number and all moles had better look out. How can moles look out? They’re blind! Oh – I suppose you’re one of those totalitarian Swedes demanding that government provide seeing eye shrews for every blind mole who wants one? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/177 "2009-05-07T15:54:56Z")
[http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/joe-the-plumber----quitting-the-gop.php?ref=fp1](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/joe-the-plumber----quitting-the-gop.php?ref=fp1) And this just in… **Joe The Plumber – Quitting The GOP?** Peruse and snicker. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/178 "2009-05-07T16:01:35Z")
> [@](#): > > According to the wisdom of Chronos, we can’t tell whether we are heading towards state control or not. Nobody can tell. So you’re right. Again. No, that was the wisdom of **Ruminator**. I was simply pointing out that it was inconsistent with what you were saying before that. For the record, I do think that totalitarianism can be predicted; I just don’t think that government-provided universal health care is one of the warning signs. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/179 "2009-05-07T16:25:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, that was the wisdom of **Ruminator**. I was simply pointing out that it was inconsistent with what you were saying before that. I wasn’t being inconsistent. I said that the tendency is for people to place much more emphasis on the “free government services.” People in that collective mode of thought cannot reliably predict state control. However, if citizens focus more on where & how power is consolidating, it seems that people could be conscious of creeping state control. Mr **elucidator** actually touched on this in an indirect way. [Actually, **elucidator** had the best response out of all the replies. I don’t agree with it (the philosophy of people being “perfectible”) but his idea was the most original answer.] Anyways, my “generalization” is based on observation of societies typically focused on “bread and circuses.” Can we implement UHC without increased consolidation of central govt power? I think it’s possible. If so, it renders my point moot. However, that’s not the UHC plan that people are envisioning. Ok, since we never have laws enacted with obvious labels such as, “The Ram It Up Your Ass Act”, what are the warning signs (that the masses would notice) then? Educate me. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423/180 "2009-05-07T16:37:27Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > I wasn’t being inconsistent. I said that the tendency is for people to place much more emphasis on the “free government services.” People in that collective mode of thought cannot reliably predict state control. > > However, if citizens focus more on where & how power is consolidating, it seems that people could be conscious of creeping state control. Mr **elucidator** actually touched on this in an indirect way. [Actually, **elucidator** had the best response out of all the replies. I don’t agree with it (the philosophy of people being “perfectible”) but his idea was the most original answer.] > > Anyways, my “generalization” is based on observation of societies typically focused on “bread and circuses.” > > Can we implement UHC without increased consolidation of central govt power? I think it’s possible. If so, it renders my point moot. However, that’s not the UHC plan that people are envisioning. > > Ok, since we never have laws enacted with obvious labels such as, “The Ram It Up Your Ass Act”, what are the warning signs (that the masses would notice) then? Educate me. Warrantless wiretapping Tortu.. excuse me “Enhanced interrogation methods” Habeas corpus suspension. … Censorship and attacks against Liberty of the Press/Speech. Dismissing or ignoring electoral results. you know, **actual** , totallitarian stuff [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gop-welcoming-moderates-now-this-strategy-work-for-you/495423.md?page=10)