# GOP's Trend Toward Right Is Not a Big Concern **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473 "2012-01-14T03:21:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/61 "2012-01-15T18:37:06Z")
Why does the US need a pro-life party? Considering the level of resource consumption in the US I’d think it would be smarter to discourage rather than encourage population growth. I understand that the right supports a state that can force women to have children they don’t want because of their stories, but I don’t see why such a party is _needed_. What would happen without one? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/62 "2012-01-15T19:25:28Z")
I clicked on the thread and, as usual, couldn’t stop myself from finding another two cents to add. 😛 I agree that Curtis Qin wrote a good post, but unfortunately I think his claim is probably incorrect. (Ignore any pessimistic argument that American political collapse would itself be a worthier aim than present trends.) Disclaimer: Condensing political thought to a single dimension and using “\<” to mean "to the left off, I’d write:       Radical\_Left \< OWS \< Centrist \< Obama-Demo \< Republican \< Tea\_Party I’m a centrist myself, and find it unfortunate that both major parties end up with too-right policies. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see it as a good thing. The country works best when there are two credible political parties in operation. If the Republicans make themselves irrelevant by wandering too far off to the right, then the Democrats will have free reign to be irresponsible. I agree with **Little Nemo** that the 2-party system which worked adequately during most of the 20th century involved two more or less centrist parties, often straddling either side of a near-optimal view. But it’s not working well at present. My characterization would be quite different from Nemo’s “free reign to be irresponsible”; indeed I see the Tea Party, guided by hypocrites and amplified by FoxNews et al, dragging others rightward. OWS is a useful reaction now, but widespread smirking against it is media- (incl. blog-) driven. OWS’ key point is correct: both parties advance interests of sectors like financial and neglect populist needs. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Tea Party is an embarrassment to this country, **IntelliQ.** The OWSers are not. You can tell by which one has inspired rolleyes abroad and which one has inspired copycats abroad. > … (underlining by septimus) I’ve also heard one can get a clearer view from the outside. Is it cocky if even an expat claims to have a more objective view? Myself, I’m just a detached van Winkle, but am still bemused that best news sources (other than Jon Stewart’s Daily Show 😃 ) often seem to be al-Jazeera, Reuters, Russian TV and VOA. Fact: I remember being shocked and angered to read that Europeans found GWB more of a threat than Bin-Laden. Then I reflected for a minute and realized the claim was probably true! ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/63 "2012-01-16T00:12:31Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > It can be argued that the GOP likes to rattle the swords at illegal immigration, but the truth of the matter is that without illegal aliens (love that term) many low-wage jobs remain unmanned. This figures into the growth (or not) of our economy. ## I’m not saying that Republican leaders want to limit immigration (illegal or otherwise). As you say, it’s good for business. But rank and file Tea Partiers do. > [@septimus](#): > > …indeed I see the Tea Party, guided by hypocrites and amplified by FoxNews et al, dragging others rightward. Can you give us any examples of this happening? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/64 "2012-01-16T03:37:01Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > Boehner can’t control them, what makes you think Romney can? > > No, they’ll ratchet up to the next level, whatever that is. Because he’s the President, similarly the Right was quieter during the Bush administration. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Why does the US need a pro-life party? Considering the level of resource consumption in the US I’d think it would be smarter to discourage rather than encourage population growth. I understand that the right supports a state that can force women to have children they don’t want because of their stories, but I don’t see why such a party is _needed_. What would happen without one? No, the US population is aging, to have a labour force we need a growing population pragmatically speaking. And morally speaking we need somebody to say that A is A and that abortion is murder and cannot be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/65 "2012-01-16T03:38:30Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Because he’s the President, similarly the Right was quieter during the Bush administration. Yeah, but Bush was a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/66 "2012-01-16T03:51:37Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It is true with the rise of the Tea Party that the Republican Party has been in many ways going extremely towards the right but in the end it is not a problem for the left and indeed a boon for them. It is the GOP and the conservatives who must be worried about its effects. A parallel can be seen with the Democrats’ lurching to the extreme left in the late sixties putting forth men like McGovern, Carter, Mondale, and Dukakis all of whom were defeated in landslides except in Carter’s aberration in 1976. The only real result was that the Democrats lost presidential elections constantly until they finally got their act together and nominated an electable neo/social liberal in Bill Clinton. > > Even in the last election cycle the extreme Tea Party candidates such as Sharron Angle and Christine O’Donnell have lost handily. Romney will be nominated this election cycle and if he wins he will be able to suppress the Tea Party from totally hijacking the party. If Romney loses, and there is a period of Tea Party dominance they will lose horribly and Obama will be able to get a compliant Congress and get his will done. Incidentally I see lots of parallels between Obama and Richard Nixon . Both were far less ideological than thought by most people and if only Nixon could go to China only Obama could have killed al-Awlaki and intervened in Libya without provoking insane amounts of hysteria on the left. > > Thoughts? Comments? If demographic and cultural trends continue the GOP will radicalize itself into minority status. We are becoming a more secular, younger, multi-racial society and the GOP is at odds with all those things. Millennials gave obama about a 30 point margin (those born after 1978) and made up about 20% of the electorate in 2008. By 2020 they will make up nearly 40% of the electorate. Add in the fact that the GOP appeals to older whites (the average age of fox news and talk radio listeners is mid 60s) and within 20 years most of them will be dead, replaced by their grandchildren who live in a world filled with economic insecurity (meaning people will want more regulations and safety nets), respect for science and social tolerance. Of course there is no telling if demographic trends will continue. Women used to generally be strong GOP voters, now they tend to lean democratic (by about a 15 or so point margin). Southern whites used to be strongly democratic, now are strongly republican. Obama can’t get his will done. Even with 260 or so house members and 60 dem senators, all his legislation had to be watered down so the most conservative democrats would vote for it. That didn’t happen with the GOP, they didn’t water down their legislation until Snowe and Collins supported it. Add in GOP obstrutionism, and even with super majorities the democrats can only pass legislation that is similar to what the GOP proposed 20 years ago. What will be really funny (in a black comedy way) is if the GOP wins the senate and white house in 2012, I’m sure they will abolish the filibuster. Or greatly weaken it. I admire them, they are wrong on the issues but they are tough and competent. The opposite of the dems. Why would intervening in Libya cause hysteria on the left? I don’t speak for the left, but Libya was run by a corrupt autocrat who had supported assassinations against Americans. And an opportunity to get rid of him presented itself, so we took it. If anything the right was opposed to Libya, but that was only because obama was the one in favor of it. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/67 "2012-01-16T03:53:07Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Why would intervening in Libya cause hysteria on the left? I don’t speak for the left, but Libya was run by a corrupt autocrat who had supported assassinations against Americans. And an opportunity to get rid of him presented itself, so we took it. If anything the right was opposed to Libya, but that was only because obama was the one in favor of it. Much of the same people who brought you OWS, was protesting the Libyan intervention for the same reasons they opposed the Iraq War. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/68 "2012-01-16T04:49:52Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No, the US population is aging, to have a labour force we need a growing population pragmatically speaking. You have a growing population already. Abortion is not a factor. (I’d also ask as an aside what you think this labour force of yours is going to do for a living, but it’s not germane.) > [@](#): > > And morally speaking we need somebody to say that A is A and that abortion is murder and cannot be tolerated. It isn’t murder, any more than eating meat is murder. Just because a group of zealots (the Christian right, or PETA) say an act has a legal status doesn’t mean it actually does. You’ve just restated your claim, you haven’t answered my question: I understand that the right supports a state that can force women to have children they don’t want because of their stories, but I don’t see why such a party is needed. What would happen without one? I submit you need a pro-choice party, because the alternative is an anti-choice party that would support forcing women to have children they don’t want for the sake of placating superstitious strangers. I thought you Americans cherished your freedom more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/69 "2012-01-16T04:58:36Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Much of the same people who brought you OWS, was protesting the Libyan intervention for the same reasons they opposed the Iraq War. Kucinich opposed the intervention in Libya. But Pelosi supported it. I don’t know what progressives in general thought but I am a progressive and I supported it. The opposition to the war in Iraq was different than the war in Libya. The war in Iraq was going to turn the world against us, it was unilateral, it cost tons of money, it killed tons of civilians, and it was fought for ideological reasons. I don’t think any of those apply to Libya. I know this next election will be about the economy, but Obama’s foreign policy is pretty amazing. The war in Iraq is over, international opinion of us is up, Al Qaeda is still on the run, Bin Laden is dead, etc. Also things that Obama had nothing to do (but that are a neat coincidence that make him look good) also happened. The arab spring, riots in Iran and death of Kim Jong Il as examples. If foreign policy mattered in 2012 like it did in 2006, Obama would coast to victory. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/70 "2012-01-16T09:10:44Z")
Washington (CNN) - Most Americans want a special congressional committee tasked with drafting a long-term solution to the nation’s mounting federal deficits to include tax hikes for the wealthy and businesses… A CNN/ORC International Poll released Wednesday also indicates that the public doesn’t want the super committee to propose major changes to Social Security and Medicare or increase taxes on middle class and lower-income Americans. [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/10/new-cnn-poll-majority-want-tax-increase-for-wealthy-and-deep-spending-cuts/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/10/new-cnn-poll-majority-want-tax-increase-for-wealthy-and-deep-spending-cuts/) * * * As the OP suggests there is a parallel to the late 1960s and early 1970s. Back then the energy was on the left, but the electorate was moving to the right. Now the energy is on the right, but on important issues the electorate is moving to the left. More people from 18 to 30 favor socialism than capitalism. > **[Young People More Likely To Favor Socialism Than Capitalism: Pew](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/young-people-socialism_n_1175218)** > > Young People More Likely To Favor Socialism Than Capitalism: Pew ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/71 "2012-01-16T11:27:55Z")
… Indeed I see the Tea Party, guided by hypocrites and amplified by FoxNews et al, dragging others rightward. > [@2sense](#): > > Can you give us any examples of this happening? Tea Party and other extreme-rightists drag the GOP rightward, leaving a vacuum in the center-right which draws in the Demos. Single-payer health care, progressive taxation, oversight of banking are three big issues with wide support among Americans, and wide support among many Democrat leaders. But with right-wing intransigence and a vacuum at center-right, Democrat leaders are happy to move rightward, thinking that’s the path to maximize their voting and campaign support. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/72 "2012-01-16T11:37:55Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Much of the same people who brought you OWS, was protesting the Libyan intervention for the same reasons they opposed the Iraq War. Why the need to draw a connection between OWS and Libya? Isn’t OWS focused on domestic issues? And I thought you finally agreed that Iraq War was a mistake. A mistake only in hind sight? A mistake, but still “good” because it was espoused by your kind of people? Try repeating a mantra: _Rationalists opposed the 2003 War not because we’re fuzzy-headed pacifists but because it was a stupid plan_. Conflating OWS, Libya, and Iraq into a single sentence like the above makes one worry that lower-grade reasoning is at work: “We dislike OWS and they dislike Bush’s War; therefore we still like Bush’s War even though it was a bad idea.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/73 "2012-01-16T12:33:39Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I generally agree with the OP, but he should come back and explain why he thinks Jimmy Carter was a far-left president. > > Having just read his biography, I can assure you…he was not. > > Also, I liked the comment from some poster that it’s not so much that the Tea Partiers are more conservative than other Repubs, it’s that they are more dense when it comes to understanding that legislation and governing necessarily involves compromise. I think the reason Carter got elected is because too many wanted someone much different than Nixon. The Christian Coalition began organizing and started to go to the exteme right on socila issues. The Evangilicals used the RCC’s stand on abortion and a lot of voters vote on one issue.They started calling abortion Murder and I think that helped, but the country is very divided and I don’t believe either winner will get more than half the votes. When one party win’s by a small margin the counyry is worse off for it. The parties won’t give in (like the Republican’s were not happy that Obama won and even some of his own party members didn’t work with him from the day he was elected! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/74 "2012-01-16T15:20:57Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Contrary to the OP, anyone with even the slightest idea of they are talking about knows the country is center right but democrat politicians have been pushing it left. Moving it back the other way where it belongs is not radical but reasonable. But, the country is **not** center-right. [Its center-of-gravity is a lot further left than you think it is.](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/03/political_ideology.html) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/75 "2012-01-16T16:48:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Much of the same people who brought you OWS, was protesting the Libyan intervention for the same reasons they opposed the Iraq War. I’m not at all sure that you are right on this point, but given the tiny number of people in the OWS movement, when we look at the larger numbers in the U.S. population, Obama caught much more grief from the Right than from the Left over the limited involvement he provided to NATO for Europe to support the Libya rebellion. On your second point, you are just wrong. Iraq was opposed by far more people, (too few, but far more than protested Libya), on totally different grounds–namely, that Bush and Company were lying at every level, (justification, motivation, ability to succeed, and awareness of reality), to get us into a war we did not need. The the opposition to Libyan intervention was scattered around random beliefs of isolationism and general opposition to anything that Obama would do on any occasion. (There was opposition to Bush, just because he was Bush, but it made up a smaller percentage of the people opposing the Iraq adventure on far more substantial grounds.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/76 "2012-01-16T17:03:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I’m not at all sure that you are right on this point, but given the tiny number of people in the OWS movement, when we look at the larger numbers in the U.S. population, Obama caught much more grief from the Right than from the Left over the limited involvement he provided to NATO for Europe to support the Libya rebellion. Yes, but considering how it has turned out so far, it would be inconvenient for them to remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/77 "2012-01-16T18:52:14Z")
> [@Paralogic](#): > > Not really. > > Republicans always vote for their Pres. nominee, because he always stands for discrimination and the annihilation of non-Christians around the world, whoever the nominee is. > > The Tea bag crowd is not a party, it’s a bunch of ? people trying to express their hate against minorities but being aware that they can’t do this any more in public, so they pretend to have a party. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/78 "2012-01-16T21:53:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Tea Party and other extreme-rightists drag the GOP rightward, leaving a vacuum in the center-right which draws in the Demos. > > Single-payer health care, progressive taxation, oversight of banking are three big issues with wide support among Americans, and wide support among many Democrat leaders. But with right-wing intransigence and a vacuum at center-right, Democrat leaders are happy to move rightward, thinking that’s the path to maximize their voting and campaign support. Are these supposed to be issues where the Tea Party is pulling the GOP to the right? All of them are things the GOP naturally opposes since they all cost rich people money. The first requires tax increases and (along with the third) lowers profits in the affected industry. Progressive taxation takes money directly from the pockets of wealthy Americans. You can’t drag someone in a direction they are already moving as fast as possible. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/79 "2012-01-16T23:18:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > First, there is little “grass roots” about a group that was brought together by the money of the Koch brothers… It annoys me that David helps fund _Nova_, but the Tea Partiers, in the main, seem so anti-science. ---
**Author:** ![Paralogic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Paralogic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paralogic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473/80 "2012-01-17T02:50:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Cite? Me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gops-trend-toward-right-is-not-a-big-concern/609473.md?page=5)