# Gore is a scumsucking inertebrate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2000, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939 "2000-11-27T23:49:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/41 "2000-11-28T02:52:49Z")
Gaudere: Forgot this in the last post. šŸ™‚ (Iā€™d ask you to insert it for me, but Iā€™m afraid where youā€™d tell me to stick it) šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/42 "2000-11-28T02:54:12Z")
> [@](#): > > whoā€™s very title proves me an idiot. Unless my grammar-sense (I was bitten by a radioactive English teacher) is wrong, I think your post here does a good job of that too. Isnā€™t it _whose_? šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![nebuli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/0ea827/32.png) [@nebuli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nebuli)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/43 "2000-11-28T02:55:33Z")
Whoops, I see a few more posts sneaked in also. Scylla, what Gore said was that not all the **votes** were counted. You are calling him a liar because all the **ballots** were machine counted- that is not the same thing. Your point is well taken in comparing these FL counties using punchcards to other counties which may also use punchcards. Yes, in those counties probably a lot of other votes were not counted either. But since the races in those states were not being affected by the undercount not much fuss is being raised. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/44 "2000-11-28T03:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > whoā€™s very title proves me an idiot. > > Unless my grammar-sense (I was bitten by a radioactive English teacher) is wrong, I think your post here does a good job of that too. Isnā€™t it _whose_? šŸ˜‰ \*\* Would you fix that for me? (You try typing one-handed while you daughter sits in you lap trying to pick your nose. Itā€™s a little distracting) ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/45 "2000-11-28T03:00:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Tejota: > > SO your suggesting that all the other states that didnā€™t do handcounts havenā€™t had their votes counted? Yes, counts are probably incomplete, but if the margin of victory is larger than the number of uncounted ballots, then the incomplete result is decisive anyway. > [@](#): > > Dade County is a big county. I would not be surprised in the least if 10,000 ballots didnā€™t have a Presidential vote. I have occasionally not voted for particular offices on the ballot, where I was not familiar with the issues or loiathed both candidates. You would be in the minority on this one. This represents about 2% of that county. > [@](#): > > But again, you are not arguing what Gore said Florida has had two **machine** counts of each and every ballot, and selective handcounts of democratic counties, and Gore has still not won. Agreed, but with the caveat that machine counts are incomplete, and the Gore hasnā€™t _lost_ either since the margin of error is many times larger than the margin of victory. > [@](#): > > If you are saying a machine count isnā€™t a count, youā€™re full of it. Even CNBC recognizes the fallacy of this. If Gore, or you wish to argue that the machine counts arenā€™t accurate , or are faulty, thatā€™s one thing. To say the ballots werenā€™t counted period, is misleading at best. \*\* I belive thatā€™s exactly what Iā€™m saying, A machine count is not a **full** count. Calling me names may make you feel good, but it really isnā€™t a rebuttal that anyone will respect. There are ballots in Florida that have never been counted because the machine is incapable of counting them and no human has ever tried. In most elections, these ballots would be insignificant because counting couldnā€™t change the outcome. In this case it _could_ and therefore they must be counted for the result to be legitimate. tj ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/46 "2000-11-28T03:07:17Z")
Tejota: Youā€™re responding reasonably, but youā€™re putting words in Goreā€™s mouth. That is not what he said. (Sorry about the insult though) ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/47 "2000-11-28T03:08:19Z")
Indirectly that Iā€™ve been using the terms ā€˜ballotā€™ and ā€˜voteā€™ interchangeably, which probably confuses my point somewhat. What I should be saying is that all of the _ballots_ have been processed by machine, but not all of the _votes_ have been registered. So whether ā€œnot all votes have been countedā€ is a lie or not turns into a semantic argument. I depends on what the meaning of ā€˜voteā€™ and ā€˜countā€™ is. šŸ˜‰ tj ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/48 "2000-11-28T04:04:12Z")
I wouldenā€™t go so far as saying Gore lied. Now hes getting good about telling halftruths that if you reason it out in some wierd way he was telling the truth. Gore however has lost, hes lost and lost and lost. He just doesenā€™t seem to get that considering how many times hes lost even if he manages to win once he will probably lose 10 times more. Though I doubt there is anything he can do, if even Supreme Court rulings in favor of him donā€™t get him the presidency I donā€™t think anything can. He learned the lying from Clinton, can you define what ā€œisā€ means? Gore even seemed slightly reputable before he became VP:) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/49 "2000-11-28T04:47:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > 3. Gore is lying out his ass. Every vote has been counted at least twice. He knows this. However, saying ā€œthousands of votes have **never** been counted,ā€ sounds a lot better than ā€œThousands of votes did not indicate a choice for President.ā€ Well, to be honest, I am not particularly fond of his choice of words here eitherā€¦But, to give the other side of the storyā€¦it is a reactive thing to the way that the Republicans have been talking about recount after recount. Their language in this regard has been at least as misleadingā€¦It was almost to the point where I thought ā€œhell, why donā€™t count each vote recounted as another whole recount!ā€ And, when it comes to complete fabrications, it is still some of our good conservative friends (such as Reaganā€™s son) who take the cake for not being only a bit misleading but in fact making up complete baldfaced lies. [See my deconstruction of a horrendous article posted on [reagan.com](http://reagan.com) and brought to our attention by Uncle Beer at the end of this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46135&pagenumber=3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46135&pagenumber=3). Dammit! I wasted some precious time on this so you guys better read it! šŸ˜‰ ] ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/50 "2000-11-28T05:07:44Z")
I really despair, when reading this thread from beginning to end. ā€œGreat Debatesā€ this is not; childish ranting and raving comparable to what I hear from my kids it equates to. And this is what passes for worthwhile posting on a site devoted to the smartest human, who attempts to swat aside ignorance and stupidity with intelligence and clarity. Shame, folks, shame (except for the fun regarding inertebrates; you learn a new word every dayā€¦). ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/51 "2000-11-28T05:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Tejota: > > ā€¦ but youā€™re putting words in Goreā€™s mouth. That is not what he said. I donā€™t think I am, let me illustrate by quoting him directly. for the record, hereā€™s what he said: [[http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/27/gore.transcript/](http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/27/gore.transcript/)](CNN Transcript of Goreā€™s Remarks) > [@](#): > > _From Al Goreā€™s address today_ > A vote is not just a piece of paper, a vote is a human voice, a statement of human principle, and we must not let those voices be silenced. It seems clear to me that he is defining terms, a ballot is a piece of a paper, but a vote is not. A vote is _intent_(Ballot is my term, Gore never mentions it). > [@](#): > > _From Al Goreā€™s address today_ > That is all we have asked since Election Day: a complete count of all the votes cast in Florida. Not recount after recount as some have charged, but a single, full and accurate count. > > We havenā€™t had that yet. Great efforts have been made to prevent the counting of these votes. Lawsuit after lawsuit has been filed to delay the count and to stop the counting for many precious days between Election Day and the deadline for having the count finished. Given his definition of ā€˜voteā€™, it seems clear to me that he is referring to the fact that machine counts missed many votes when they were counting the ballots, and that hand-counts, which could have counted these votes were not allowed to finish. (Dade county in particular) So, no, I donā€™t think I put any words in his mouth. I used different words the he did, but the intended meaning is the same. tj ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/52 "2000-11-28T05:25:00Z")
I donā€™t have time to read all the posts before mine, so this might have been posted, but if, by chance it hasnā€™t, Iā€™ll go ahead. > [@](#): > > 1. Donā€™t say ā€œUmmm.ā€ It means you are an unschooled idiot, and that youā€™re not saying anything worthwhile. Youā€™d think the guy might have had some training in public oration. For a man in his position itā€™s inexcusable not to be coherent. You are kidding, right? Letā€™s see if I had to pick the ā€œunschooled idiotā€ out of the two, Iā€™d definately pick Bush. Gore is much better speaker, I think that he conveys more respect than Bush. I donā€™t know how Bush can expect to be taken seriously when it seems like heā€™s going to make some terrible gaffe with every word out of his mouth. It seriously pains me to listen to Bush, I feel he is struggling not to just start drooling all over himself. Itā€™s a shame to see that he probably took a spot away from a more worthy applicant to Yale. Heā€™s a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/53 "2000-11-28T05:26:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Gore is much better speaker, Should read Gore is A much better speaker. Does that count for irony? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/54 "2000-11-28T06:35:51Z")
Whats Wā€™s desperate hurry? The American people are desperate for closure? Anybody see anybody writhing on the ground crying out for closure? His handlers **know** his lead is thinner than a butterfly fart and could vanish in the next _precinct_, never mind _county_! We donā€™t **have** to have a President till Jan. 20. Hell, we could organize a hand balloted, hand counted election in the entire state in two weeks, if that ā€œwill of the peopleā€ is really what weā€™re after. If Gore stares him down, W.'s bro will call together the Florida Legislature, they will deliberate, and solemnly affirm W. as etc.,etc, W. will most likely win, but not until he shows us **all** what heā€™s really made of. Has W. even once, **once** , mind you, made reference to his **losing** the popular vote? I thought not. Canā€™t wait! ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/55 "2000-11-28T13:14:09Z")
elucidator said: > [@](#): > > The American people are desperate for closure? Anybody see anybody writhing on the ground crying out for closure? Well, some Republicans are, but thatā€™s only 'cus their guy is winning right now. Somehow I suspect that if the situation were reversed, theyā€™d be talking about how every vote must be counted, etc. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/56 "2000-11-28T13:43:30Z")
yes, always nice to see unpartisan debates going on. Where did you say they were, again? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/57 "2000-11-28T13:51:00Z")
According to the Squawk Box people this morning (I gotta check to see how my stocks are doing!), there were 3 polls conducted yesterday: One reported that 60% of Americans want immediate closure on this thing (USA Today poll, I believe), one says 80% of Americans think Al Gore should concede (NY Post - which is admittedly one step above the National Enquirer, though if they polled New Yorkers that would be very significant.) and another (a national survey firm or network - forgot who) said 61% of people polled think George W. Bush won the election. These same people also said (50%) that they thought that Bush should have waited to declare himself the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Tennessee\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f0a364/32.png) [@Tennessee\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tennessee_Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/58 "2000-11-28T13:51:34Z")
Scylla FWIW, Tim Russert just said almost _verbatim_ what youā€™ve been saying all along; specifically, that Gore was wrong for claiming that thousands of votes had never been cast, since they had all been run through a machine twice. Iā€™m not saying that any TV news proclamation is definitive of the truth, but when Tim Freakinā€™ Russert starts to agree with Scylla, it may be time to ā€œcertifyā€ this GD. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/59 "2000-11-28T14:34:21Z")
Scylla: ā€œIā€™ve come down hard on Mrs. Harrisā€. Please get that thought out of my head. Seriously, I donā€™t think Anyonme will know exactly who won for real. Was every vote counted properly? No one knows. ---
**Author:** ![Phil\_15](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Phil\_15](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phil_15)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939/60 "2000-11-28T15:04:03Z")
The inventor of the machines used to count ballots/votes has been reported (Fox News Network) to have admitted that the accuracy rate expected is between 95-98%. This means that everywhere these machines were used may expect the same 2-5% kickout of rejected ballots. The reason for this discrepancy is due to HUMAN ERROR in not pushing the stylus completely through the ballot or not following the clearly printed instructions used by (I believe) all election boards that use these machines, that tell the voter to examine their ballot to insure that all holes are in fact punched cleanly with no ā€œhanging chadsā€ left behind. I do NOT believe: [ul] [li]That the standards for one part of the country should be different than any another.[/li][li]That election rules/laws should be changed or set aside AFTER an election is held.[/li][li]That misunderstanding, confusion, lack of following direction, or senility removes personal responsibility in insuring that a vote be counted.[/li][li]That hand counting is more accurate because impartiality and concise standards of judgement in determining ā€œthe mind of the voterā€ are most certainly in question.[/li][li]That the Gore supporters have wanted the voices of our men and woman in the overseas military to be heard and in fact, quite the opposite seems to be the case (This is disingenuous to the utmost).[/li][li]That Gore won Floridaā€™s 25 electorial votes.[/li][/ul] All the ballots HAVE been counted. Some as much as 4 times. It appears to me that Gore is in his LEGAL right to continue to contest the election that he feels should be his due to his winning the popular voteā€¦butā€¦this country is NOT a democracy. Itā€™s a constitutional republic and by the rules laid out in the constitution, Bush is the winner of the election and the contined petty manuevering and pontificating is NOT in the best interest of the country or Goreā€™s chances in 2004. Stick a fork in himā€¦heā€™s DONE. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-is-a-scumsucking-inertebrate/42939.md?page=4)