You misapprehend me. The manufacturing sector declines, and the service sector–low-pay, low-skill–expands.
Actually…I think we’re both right. You’re correct that my statement was wrong–if someone gets two jobs after previously holding one, the unemployment rate doesn’t go down. What I was thinking of was something different: the number of jobs created. If someone loses one job and gains two, the administration can (and does) claim that new jobs have been created. Leading to the comic exchange: “Wow, the Clinton administration’s created four million jobs!” “Yeah, and I’ve got three of them.”
That being said, the unemployment rate is a grievously inaccurate indicator of the number of people who lack full-time employment, as both our links say. It counts part-time workers as being fully employed, extracts those in prison from the calculation, and removes “discouraged” workers–who have been judged to have stopped looking for work–from the ranks of the unemployed. There are a few more reasons, too, as explicated in the book I cited.
You’re right, though; mine was an inaccurate statement. I apologize.
Is there any hope that the lesser compensation for low-skill jobs will motivate high school students to work harder at getting skills? Probably not in the short run, but one can hope. It seems to me that society glamorizes the elite jobs and equates everything below them so that someone who doesn’t fell they want to go to the extreme and become a doctor or something will think they may as well drop out and be a Fast Food Restaurant Manager. I think there could be an effective ad campaign designed to educate kids as to the kind of income and/or lifestyle that can be achieved by various careers.
I still can’t even understand why anyone even thinks that adding 10 million high tech jobs would be a good thing right now. We seem to be debating related issues, which is fine with me. Still I wonder if anyone thinks that adding the jobs is a good idea and why. I am considering writing to the Gore campaign and asking their position, mostly just to see if I get a real answer. What do you think, should I?
I have a computer science degree, and one day, I searched in the Department of Labor to look for a high tech job. I picked the jobs I wanted, but the other qualifications in those were listed in such a way that the only people who can possibly qualify for those high-tech jobs are foreign immigrants.
Hey, the SOB magically created the Internet, too. Making ten million jobs should be a snap for a demigod like him.
Capacitor… (I always call you “Capacitator” for some reason…)
How so? Not that I doubt you, but now you’ve piqued my curiosity…
Gadarene…
My apologies, I merely wanted to point out other factors of economic growth, and used your post as a stepping-stone. And leave my speed-reading classes out of this, consarnit!! (I flunked them all, anyway)
What the h*ll is all this talk of low wages for low-skill jobs? The Burger King down the road from my house is paying $11.25 an hour for new employees, and Pizza Hut just ran an ad for delivery drivers starting at $12.00/hr. The low skill job I had two years ago paid $9.45/hr, my friend who still works there just got boosted to $13, because that’s what new hires are making. I think those are excellent wages for low-skill jobs. Lie with statistics all you want, this is empirical evidence.
Capacitor, you must be taking us for idiots. Can you explain exactly what qualifications favor immigrants? You are fooling yourself but you are not fooling me. It is well known that immigrants have to overcome many hurdles and red tape to get a work visa and this has been discussed extensively in a few other threads which you can read. If you can’t get yourself a job don’t blame it on immigrants. There is a real shortage of hi tech workers and companies are getting them where ever they can (while many Americans prefer to major in English or in Women’s Studies as pointed out in another thread).
On the whole I am with Vileorb on this one. What is moving the economy forward is the hitech sector which employs people with skills and education. And that is a good thing even for those without the education because people with high earning jobs can spend and create low paying jobs for the unskilled. But it is true that an education is more and more necessary and without one your prospects are not good.
C++/JAVA Programer for foorward looking, talented, energetic individuals
CS Degree required, preferably from New Delhi University or Calcutta Polytechnic
Experience in programing or providing tech support to Chineese or Iraqi nuclear programs a plus
Lack of fluency in English major plus
If yo’ ass so white it can be used for a safety reflector, you need not apply.
Yeah, I see these adds all’da time.
Another major benefeit of the creation of 10 million new jobs is the technology that these jobs progress and how they stimulate the economy. The past 10 years of economic expansion, fueled heavily by technology that has affected all classes of our society, the rich get richer and the poor get richer. Really, nobody is worse off on the whole as an easily represented and defined demographic.
Oh please. The DOL and INS screen all H-1B visa applications very carefully to ensure that the employer is not deliberately attempting to exclude US citizens and green-card holders. I seriously doubt the DOL would therefore list job vacancy announcements which do just that. Let me repeat the request of others here that you provide us with examples.
sailor:
Just a slight nitpick here. “Immigrants” don’t need work visas; by definition they already hold an immigrant visa which entitles them to work on the same basis as US citizens. Foreign nationals on temporary visas are classified as “non-immigrants”, though depending on the type of visa they hold they may also have immigrant intent.
You’re right about the red tape and hurdles, though.
ruadh, you are right, of course. But just to nitpick myself, immigrants also have a ton of red tape and bureaucracy to go through before they get their status. As was discussed in this thread, the US is giving few immigrant visas and has to make up the difference with H1B visas which are a hassle for those who get them as the have to keep renewing them. The whole system is messed up.
Around here the question is why we are importing workers and still have people collecting unemployment.
There seems to be a lack of appreciation for the talent we have. A lot of people are underemployed or working two jobs because the pay is low. We need someone to look out for them. The country-wide figures don’t tell the whole story.
Well, capacitor never came back to respond and I had forgotten about this thread until I saw this.
At any rate, I just read this post by capacitor in which he defends Fidel Castro for taking back from the multinationals what they had stolen from the Cuban people. I am begining to understand the reasons why he can’t find a job. What I don’t understand is why he would want a job being exploited by “the man”. Maybe he should go to Cuba and apply for a job there. I understand the average salary there is somewhere between $5 and $8 a month! That is for those lucky enough to have jobs. But hey! you’re not exploited.