# Gore vs Bush: The Intelligence Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867 "2003-08-18T01:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/21 "2003-08-18T03:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Gore claims his father was voted out of office due to his courageous stand supporting Civil Rights, even though his father actually voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The information you have presented has been twisted to suit your purposes. What Al Gore said was **true**. I am a Tennessean. My father knew the elder Senator and campaigned for and with him. I was a politically active adult when the Civil Rights Act was passed. Although the elder Sen. Albert Gore did not vote to support the Civil Rights Act **in its final version** he did indeed take a courageous stand in support of civil rights. And I remember well why he was voted out of office. From _Border States: Journal of the Kentucky-Tennessee American Studies Association, No. 10 (1995)_ [http://spider.georgetowncollege.edu/htallant/border/bs10/mitchell.htm](http://spider.georgetowncollege.edu/htallant/border/bs10/mitchell.htm) > [@](#): > > **Albert Gore is perhaps best-remembered by Tennesseeans for his stand on Civil Rights. His refusal to sign the Southern Manifesto and his support of almost all the Civil Rights acts during his tenure angered and alienated many Tennesseeans and Southerners in this period of massive resistance.** Gore was a self-styled southern moderate, not a radical or liberal; however, as Gore admits, “this hot and rancid political stuff was an open invitation to extremism, which made moderation a hazardous political course.” While Gore voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, **he supported every other piece of Civil Rights legislation from 1953 to 1970. His “no” vote came only after his amendment opposing cut-off of federal funds to schools and hospitals failed. As a former teacher and school superintendent, Gore felt he could not support legislation that would penalize children and the sick for bureaucratic failure to comply.** (bolding added) So what Al Gore said was true. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/22 "2003-08-18T03:46:32Z")
Oops! I forgot to add a welcome, Republican! I see that it was your sources that most likely twisted the information and not you. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@The\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Republican)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/23 "2003-08-18T03:46:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Still making assertions without cites? \*\* > [@](#): > > In fact, if the members would prefer, this topic can be deleted and I can re-post it with the citations in place. Just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@The\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Republican)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/24 "2003-08-18T03:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*Oops! I forgot to add a welcome, Republican! I see that it was your sources that most likely twisted the information and not you. My apologies. \*\* Thank you for the welcome. Like most debators, I take the facts that are available and, while they are still true, I apply them where I need them. Facts are facts, and people can make their own interpretations.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/25 "2003-08-18T03:47:42Z")
It would be better just to add the cites to this thread since the debate has already begun. That happens often. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/26 "2003-08-18T03:49:07Z")
Those _aren’t_ Eyes ! ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/27 "2003-08-18T04:10:26Z")
Welcome to the Straight Dope, **Republican**. I hope you’ll post actively here. I agree that Bush’s achievements exceed Gore’s > [@](#): > > During high school, Gore recieved mostly Cs and a few Bs in English and History. In fact, the only As he ever got were in his art classes. This is the first time I’ve ever seen Gore’s high school grades mentioned. Do you have a cite? > [@](#): > > Following college, Bush earned an MBA from Harvard, while Gore was busy failing out of Divinity School as well as Vanderbilt Law School. This difference is huge. AFAIK both Gore and Bush got mediocre grades in college. Gore’s SAT scores were somewhat higher than Bush’s. Another huge difference is success in the private sector. Bush made millions of dollars in the oil business and the baseball business. Gore worked as a salaried reporter for a few years. Critics will point out that Bush may have had the help of his father’s rich, powerful friends. However, that sort of help would have been available to Gore as well, so it doesn’t explain the difference in achievement levels. > [@](#): > > Claims he was the inspiration for “Love Story.”… > > -Claimed he took the initiative in creating the internet. These two statements are unfair slams at Gore. His claim regarding “Love Story” was that a particular reporter had written that in a story. This was true. His claim regarding the internet was ambiguous enough to to be called a lie. At worst, it was a way of sharing credit for an achievement – something politicians do all the time. A great source of Gore lore is the web site [http://www.dailyhowler.com/](http://www.dailyhowler.com/) Its writer, Bob Somerby, was a Harvard roommate of Gore and Tommy Lee Jones. This site debunks media inaccuracy. It defended Bush at a time when the media were gaga over McCain. It defends Gore all the time. Despite Somerby’s favoritism for Gore and his far left political beliefs, his site is witty and accurate. There’s a parallel between Dwight Eisenhower and Adlai Stevenson. Stevenson was an intellectual and a liberal. Ike was a poor public speaker, who sought to hide his intelligence. It was a truism in the 1950’s that Ike was an idiot and Stevenson was brilliant. In fact, Ike was very smart, and Stevenson not as smart as he seemed. Ike and George Bush shared a style of being down to earth and not flaunting their intelligence. This style confused their political adversaries, but the voting public loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/28 "2003-08-18T04:40:08Z")
> [@](#): > > **Republican** : Here is a list of some of the more prominent statements, or misstatements, made by Gore: > > -Claimed the Cane and Abel story in the Bible was God’s way of looking down on pollution. Er…no. Even in Ann Coulter’s op.ed. _opinion_, she said that Gore explained that he used the story of Cain and Abel as a metaphorical reference of the move from a herding society to an agricultural society in his book on environmental issues. What did Bush put in his book on the environment? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/29 "2003-08-18T04:53:03Z")
**This OP was posted elsewhere at the end of July. The person who posted it was banned.** [http://www.chemicalmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=2320](http://www.chemicalmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=2320) Interesting format for that website, hmmm? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@The\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Republican)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/30 "2003-08-18T05:02:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\ ***This OP was posted elsewhere at the end of July. The person who posted it was banned.** > > [http://www.chemicalmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=2320](http://www.chemicalmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=2320) > > Interesting format for that website, hmmm? \*\* Yeah, thats me. You can also look on [elitefitness.com](http://elitefitness.com) for the exact same post. You will notice that 2Thick is a moderator on both sites. He banned me on both sites for strictly personal reasons, those of which are still a mystery to me. By the way, what the hell were you alluding to? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@The\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Republican)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/31 "2003-08-18T05:03:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*Er…no. Even in Ann Coulter’s op.ed. _opinion_, she said that Gore explained that he used the story of Cain and Abel as a metaphorical reference of the move from a herding society to an agricultural society in his book on environmental issues. > > What did Bush put in his book on the environment? \*\* I dont know what Coulter has to say about this, and given the topic Im not really interested either. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/32 "2003-08-18T07:01:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Republican \* > \*\*He banned me on both sites for strictly personal reasons, those of which are still a mystery to me. > \*\* How can you know the reasons were strictly personal if the reasons are mysterious to you? That’s quite a trick. ---
**Author:** ![kawliga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@kawliga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kawliga)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/33 "2003-08-18T07:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Republican \* > \*\* > I often see posts about how people believe the only reason Bush got into Yale was because his father was some prominent figure in American society. In actuality, Bush Sr. was a little known congressman at the time who was supposed to lose his first senate race, according to polls at the time. > \*\* You’re forgetting that Bush’s grandfather (Prescott Bush, Yale 1917) was U.S. Senator from Connecticut from 1952 through 1962. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/34 "2003-08-18T08:22:37Z")
Also, George Bush the elder went to Yale. I suspect the current President got in on what is known as “legacy.” (I think that “Dad” was in a very powerful, exclusive and secretive club at Yale. Being a member gives you access to all sorts of ways and means. **Republican** , I posted a link to the second forum that I found with this post on it. So this is the third. SDMB gets pretty picky about that. I don’t know what the rules are if you wrote it yourself. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the mod squad. I used to like Gore when he was a Congressman and Senator. He was very popular and no one thought of him as stiff. When he became the VP, the comics started ribbing him about being stiff and it was sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. He was smart enough to be a good President. What I didn’t like was his willingness to change his image to please the people during the campaign. That was shallow. President GWB is good with the guys. He was at his best at Ground Zero and, although I rolled my eyes at his flying in on the carrier, the women and men liked it and that was what was important. That was the other good day. I do think he is too limited to be POTUS. Meanwhile, needs to choose his words or his speechwriters more carefully. There doesn’t seem to be any eloquence anywhere within this administration. That is more important than most people might think. During one of Clinton’s speeches, the teleprompter went out for fifteen minutes and he vamped it. Can you honestly imagine GWB being able to pull it off? BTW, Ike was nobody’s fool. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/35 "2003-08-18T11:27:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by (O\_o) \* > \*\*Don’t bother. They’ll just nit pick something else. > > Logic is the last thing they want to face. > > It is proven over and over again. \*\* Well, what I see over and over again, **(O\_o)** is you harassing the members of this message board as a whole. That, plus your sig, plus your autism posting is enough to make me think that you’re just trolling. Goodbye. Lynn For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/36 "2003-08-18T11:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Republican, I posted a link to the second forum that I found with this post on it. So this is the third. SDMB gets pretty picky about that. I don’t know what the rules are if you wrote it yourself. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the mod squad. From the [Registration Agreement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148527): > [@](#): > > This message board is intended as a medium for public discussion. Do not post spam, including but not limited to advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a cause, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity, whether or not money is involved. We REALLY don’t like it when someone reposts stuff s/he’s already posted on another board, especially if it’s more than one repost. At most sites, it’s considered good netiquette to lurk for a while, reading threads and posts without making any. This is also true at the Straight Dope. We have certain topics that pop up over and over again, and the wise new poster will familiarize him/herself with the board before inflicting foot-in-mouth disease upon him/herself. Lynn For the Straight Dope {edited to fix the damn coding. Lynn} ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/37 "2003-08-18T11:54:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Republican \* > **-Claimed he took the initiative in creating the internet.** > [@](#): > > _Said by Gore as quoted on Snopes_ > \*\*During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system. \*\* I’d say **The Republican** nailed that one solid. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/38 "2003-08-18T12:02:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Bush made millions of dollars in the oil business and the baseball business. Unsurprisingly, this is false. Bush’s oil businesses went broke time and time again. He never made any serious money until his daddy being in the White House enabled the son to put together a sweetheart deal for the Rangers, in which he owned a paltry 1% of the team, but was entitled to something like 10% of the profits when the team was subsequently sold. Bush even had to borrow the funds for his 1%, since he didn’t have the capital himself. Obviously, it worked out rather well for him, thanks in no small part to getting the taxpayers to buy him a nice new stadium and a ton of prime real estate. (Cutting taxes only matters after you’re rich, apparently. Until then, it’s perfectly acceptable to raise taxes and put the resulting cash straight into your private investment.) But it didn’t take some kind of business genius to make money buying and reselling a baseball team in the 1990s, a time when franchise values tripled or quadrupled in a very short period. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/39 "2003-08-18T12:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > \*\*I’d say **The Republican** nailed that one solid. \*\* Snopes also said this: > [@](#): > > **Clearly** , although Gore’s phrasing was clumsy (and self-serving), \*\*he was not claiming that he “invented” the Internet \*\*(in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible for helping to create the environment (in an economic and legislative sense) that fostered the development of the Internet. Al Gore might not know nearly as much about the Internet and other technologies as his image would have us believe, and he certainly has been guilty of stretching (if not outright breaking) the truth before, but to believe that Gore seriously thought he could take credit for the “invention” of the Internet — in the sense offered by the media — is just silly. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867/40 "2003-08-18T12:21:02Z")
Right, **spooje** , I read the cite. The OP did not use the phrase “invented the internet” like so many other hyper right wingers, he used the same words that Gore used, so I am saying the OP’s one statement that I quoted seems to be accurate, in that Gore DID in fact say such a thing. Meanings are not being addressed, stated words are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gore-vs-bush-the-intelligence-debate/195867.md?page=3)